»Argh, Nostradamus' translations«
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 Take this four-liner (Quatrain 4,25), for example. The original text by Nostradamus goes like this: Corps sublimes sans fin l'oeil visibles,
Ob nubiler viendront par ces raisons: Corps, front comprins, sens chefs & inuisibles, Diminuant les sacrees oraisons. Different translations translate it TOTALLY differently: Translation #1 Lofty bodies endlessly visible to the eye,
Through these reasons they will come to obscure: Body, forehead included, sense and head invisible, Diminishing the sacred prayers. Translation #2 The infinite stars are links that light to doubt,
And drop the pall of night upon the soul: The eye and front of man,--and soul,--grown cerebral, God and His host withdraw; and with them prayer! Translation #3 Eternal Sublime Substance once visible to naked eyes
Shall be made obscure due to rationalism Walking dead, enclosed mind, blind judment, invisible heads (chief) Shall diminish the sacred prayer Translation #4 The hidden bodies endlessly visible to the eye
The obsessed will find it comes by their own reasons The body and the conscious mind the main senses for which awareness ceases As the sacred prayers diminish Translation #5 Bodies, sublime and infinite, visible to the eye
Will become clouded over by their own reasons Body, including the forhead, senses, head and invisibles Will diminish the sacred prayers. How in the world can someone put meaning into this? It's already clouded in its original! posted by knn |
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| in-my-opinion.orgReligion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolvesReligious & Philosophical TopicsArgh, Nostradamus' translations |
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 OK, here is another example of how Nostradamus can be translated. Quartain 10,72: L’an mil neuf cens nonante neuf sept mois,
Du ciel viendra un grad Roi deffraieur. Resusciter le grand Roi d’Angolmois. Avant que Mars regner par bon heur. In the Year 1999 and the seven months
The Great King of Terror will come from the sky He will bring back Ghengis Khan Before and after War rules happily Let 1999’s seventh month arrive,
Then comes from heaven a great financing lord The Mongols’ mighty leader to revive. War reign before, then happily is restored. The year 1999, seventh month,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror. To bring back to life the great King of the Mongols, Before and after Mars to reign by good luck. In the nineteen hundred ninety nine and seven months
from the sky, will come a great king of terror to bring back to life the great king of Angolmois, before Mars to reign by good luck The year 1999, seventh month,
A great king of terror will descend from the skies To resuscitate the great king Anglolmois, Around this time Mars will reign for the good cause There are different interpretations of "King of terror" and "King of the Mongols" Suggested meanings for "King of Terror"
Suggested meanings for "Roi d’Angolmois"
Suggested meanings for "L’an mil neuf cens nonante neuf sept mois"
Suggested meanings for "Mars regner par bon heur."
posted by knn |
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 L’an mil neuf cens nonante neuf sept mois,
Du ciel viendra un grad Roi deffraieur. Resusciter le grand Roi d’Angolmois. Avant que Mars regner par bon heur. here's google's pathetic attempt Google Translation knn: Suggested meanings for "Mars regner par bon heur."
"Mars in ascension for a good hour" it's somebody's horoscope 
posted by Marl64 |
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Quote: Couldn't it simply refer to Mars? It is unclear whether Mars mean "War" or "Mars rules" means something astronomical, a cetrain conjuction or so. posted by knn |
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Maybe the 4liners are not 4liners. Maybe the 1st line of the 1st should be read with the 1st line of the next etc. And maybe the numbering of them is a hint. They have Latin numbers like "XXI", maybe one should read them backwards "IXX" or so. posted by knn |
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 Quote: It is unclear whether Mars mean "War" or "Mars rules" means something astronomical it matters not what it meant cause absolutely nothing happened that was even remotely close to any of the many deciphers of the prediction in other words nosty was a fookin crack pot nut job posted by the anomaly |
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 On channel four, on the night before the predicted apocalypse was a programme about Nostradamus. It had an interview with a major researcher of Nostradamus' texts who pointed out that the translation of devil was due to a misplaced apostrophe. He claims that (1) Nostradamus never predicts the end of the world (He DOES predict a massive impact of some sort mind you) (2) Nostradamus refers to a payer of expenses - and NOT the devil in the text. posted by fatpie42 |
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"The year 1999, sept month" -> 2001 September. Why 2001, I don't know but there should be an explanation for it "From the sky will come a great King of Terror." WTC attack "To bring back to life the great King of the Mongols, " King of Mongols -> Asian king -> Usama bin Laden "Before and after Mars to reign by good luck." War, war! posted by knn |
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Now predict something that HASN'T already happened! Heh Heh! posted by fatpie42 |
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knn: "The year 1999, sept month"
-> 2001 September. Why 2001, I don't know but there should be an explanation for it The explanation is, 1999 didn't fit with actual facts knn: "From the sky will come a great King of Terror."
WTC attack So the guy behind 911 was on one of the planes then? 'cos to me it sounds like the "king of terror" or top terrorist comes from the sky. If you're suggesting that the attack itself was the "king of terror" - very few people felt the terror until after it happened so wouldn't it be "Mother of Terror" or something knn: "To bring back to life the great King of the Mongols, "
King of Mongols -> Asian king -> Usama bin Laden Bit of a stretch this. So let's see how these mongols are described Like others, Genghis Khan's subjects saw themselves at the center of the universe and the greatest of people -- favored, of course, by the gods. They justified Genghis Khan's conquests in previous years by claiming that he was the rightful master not only over the "peoples of the felt tent" but the entire world. Sounds a little closer to home 
But there's more Into Afghanistan and Persia
Genghis Khan became concerned about a hostile power beyond his realm to the west -- a recently formed Islamic empire, ruled by Khwarizm, that extended from Persia to Transoxiana. Genghis Khan wanted trade with the lands to his west. He wanted goods for his Mongol nation, including weapons. That trade ended when subjects of Khwarizm seized a Mongol caravan of several hundred merchants. Khwarizm claimed that spies had been in the caravan. Genghis Khan sent envoys to Khwarizm. Khwarizm had the chief of Genghis Khan's envoys killed and the beards of the others burned, and these others he sent back to Genghis Khan... ...Genghis Khan launched a war against Khwarizm. In the coldest of months the Mongols rode across the desert to Transoxiana with no baggage, slowing to the pace of merchants before appearing as warriors before the smaller towns of Khwarizm's empire. Their strategy was to frighten their opponents into surrendering without battle.... ...People in Bukhara opened the city's gates to the Mongols and surrendered. Genghis Khan told them that they, the common people, were not at fault, that high-ranking people among them had committed great sins that inspired God to send him and his army as punishment.... ...The Mongols did not torture, mutilate or maim, but their enemies did. Captured Mongols were dragged through streets and killed for sport, to entertain city residents. The Mongols did not partake in the gruesome displays that European rulers often resorted to elicit fear and discourage potential enemies... ...The Mongols merely slaughtered, preferring to do so at a distance. Sound Familiar? knn: "Before and after Mars to reign by good luck."
War, war! If you're taking Mars to represent War "Before and after War to reign by good luck." Who was lucky to stay in office through a war
posted by Marl64 |
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 If you thought that Nostradamus translators are simply stupid or inaccurate, think again. Even bible translations can vary a lot. Take this example: Daniel 1:9 refers to Ashpenaz, the chief of the court officials of Nebuchadnezzar, the King of Babylon.
Various English translations differ greatly:
Or to ask with Shakespear: Eu Nuch or not Eu Nuch? posted by knn |
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 Michel de Nostradame purposely made his quatrains obscure, even in his own language (which we now call Old French). According to John Hogue (one prominent Nostradamus scholar): Nostradamus: The Complete Prophecies, Reading Nostradamus But let's hear it from the Seer himself: ibid., The Preface of M. Nostradamus to his Prophecies Nostradamus knew that the contemporary authorities would hate him, probably even try him for witchcraft if he made his visions plain. Again quoting John Hogue, ibid., ibid. So he purposely twisted things round, using many methods--including anagram, aphaeresis, ellipsis, apocope, epenthesis, hyperbaton, metathesis, metonymy, prosthesis, synecdoche, and syncope--to play with his words. Any one of these word-altering methods would likely have been enough to obscure the meaning of his words, but as he wrote so much, and his written prophecies cover such a vast span of time (from his own time in the 16th Century to some nearly 2000 years in our own future, as admitted by the Seer himself), many methods at random were required to encode the true meanings of his visions. Therefore, it is to be expected that different translators will interpret different things from Nostradamus' poetry. knn's point about Bible translations is also a valid point. Language is largely a personal tool, depsite the efforts of many tight-assed scholars to the contrary, and we inject our own thoughts, ideas, opinions and prejudices into everything we hear, read, and comprehend. I myself was once (and recently) just as tight-assed, I must admit. But Language evolves, whether the professors of English or the Academie Francaise like it or not. The trick is to remember what the words used to mean; only then can we understand and translate these old texts into something resembling their original intent, and even then, we can never be entirely certain. posted by annaerullo |
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 annaerullo: So he purposely twisted things round, using many methods--including anagram, aphaeresis, ellipsis, apocope, epenthesis, hyperbaton, metathesis, metonymy, prosthesis, synecdoche, and syncope--to play with his words Up to a point where you can't distinguish between French and Chinese. You don't even know for what YEAR a single prophecy is, let alone what it means. posted by knn |
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I agree with you knn, but only with your observation, not your conclusion. Reading his life story, I discovered many predictions he made within his own lifetime came true in spite of efforts to make them not come true. I think his abilities were very real. The fact that he encrypted his prophecies to the point where they are nearly unintelligible does not mean they are not real. It only means that, without the key, we can't unlock what he really meant. It's like sending a telegram. If you are on the other end of the telegraph, and you don't know Morse code, the simplest message in the world would be complete gibberish to you. Or, if you intercepted an encrypted message by email, radio, or any other medium, but could not decode it... you would be as confused by it as you (and most of us) are by Nostradamus' words. But if someone can figure out his code, well, that would be something. And as for the year -- it is generally accepted that Nostradamus used a combination of astrology and psychedelic-like visions to make his prophecies. In some quatrains, he is quite specific in dating... but astrologically, his dates could apply to a number of different configurations. And, since time is probably very fluid, dates can be inaccurate, even if he did give them straight out (which he did, a very small number of times). And, since (as I stated above) he was trying to hide his work from the Inquisitors, dating his prophecies explicitly would be a sure way to get fed to the flames, so it would not have been a great idea for him to do so. You don't have to believe that Nostradamus was a prophet. He himself did not consider himself a prophet; he was quite religious, actually, and he thought the term 'prophet' to be too sublime a term to be applied to himself, at least at the time of his writings. I'm just saying that he had some very interesting things to say, and they should not be cast aside so lightly. posted by annaerullo |
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 annaerullo: Reading his life story, I discovered many predictions he made within his own lifetime came true in spite of efforts to make them not come true. I think his abilities were very real. Yes, I have several Nostradamus books and he seemed to have had some abilities. But knowing what happens next year is different from knowing what happens in 100 years. posted by knn |
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