»If kerry wins i garuntee you that the US will be attcked«
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That may be true, we will be attacked but we could have mothafuckin MR. T as President and shit would go down like that... Till our own government learns to share(with it's own people first and then the rest of the world) we will continue to be hated. Also, the next attack is coming from North Korea, the real threat. But does Bush make any mention of North Korea? No... Atleast Kerry acknowledges that they are a threat. We should be over there now, ripping Jim Krow Fat or whatever his name is... a new asshole. Not sitting around with our thumbs up are collective asses feeling safe because of the dumbass Patriot act. posted by TheChosenOne |
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| in-my-opinion.orgPoliticsBush, Kerry, Iraqif kerry wins i garuntee you that the US will be attcked |
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 Quote: yup it was Bush personally You see: Too much to be true. The average American cannot imagine that the president could be a criminal-minded bastard. "Our president? A bad guy? No way! He has 2 daughters, and look how the sweat is running down his neck when he talks about terrorism Quote: their mission wasn't accomplished ON CLINTONS WATCH... Exactly. Quote: if clinton had done a fraction of what bush has done then maybe the right time wouldn't have occured...what did clinton do? he prosocuted the individuals, never looking at the bigger picture Now since you like to speculate so much, let's speculate more: If Bush was in office 1993 the terrorist would have brought the WTC down THEN. You are still accusing Clinton, The ONEder Man. posted by knn |
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the anomaly: Quote: who learnt who to fly IN America! technically not correct as they actually did most of their training in germany 1) Technically 100% correct since they DID flight training in the US 2) I never heard of extensive flight training in Germany. Proof? All I know is that they did their training in a CIA flight school called "Huffmann Aviation School" "Huffman Aviation School" CIA Atta ♣ posted by knn |
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 Quote: We should be over there now, ripping Jim Krow Fat or whatever his name is... a new asshole. Not sitting around with our thumbs up are collective asses feeling safe because of the dumbass Patriot act. many liberals protest the war because of our dying troops in iraq, but in the same sentence they will tell you we should be worrying about n korea instead, so when/if bush were to attack north korea we would see the same liberals saying "our troops are dying! what are we doing there?" how many more troops will die in north korea than iraq? it will be exponential...are you liberals prepared for that? or will you use that against us too? in essence it's a lose/lose situation with them...and when/if we attack the correct threat iran, north korea, what will the world think then? if we attack those places people will still not like the US foreign policy even when they themselves say these countries are the real threat...i can hear it now, then next place we invade, "Look! they are trying to take over the world!" posted by The ONEder Man |
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Quote: their mission wasn't accomplished ON CLINTONS WATCH...
Exactly. Quote:if clinton had done a fraction of what bush has done then maybe the right time wouldn't have occured...what did clinton do? he prosocuted the individuals, never looking at the bigger picture Now since you like to speculate so much, let's speculate more: If Bush was in office 1993 the terrorist would have brought the WTC down THEN. You are still accusing Clinton, The ONEder Man. i'm not blaming clinton, i am only using that because you seem to forget we were attacked then too...all you care about is slamming bush so i bring in another president's failure ok specualtion indeed, what if the towers had fallen on clintons watch? would the same policies and wars be in effect as they are today? ahhh i think yes because CLINTON ATTACKED IRAQ IN RETALIATION, same intelligence used, same country attacked... Quote: You are still accusing Clinton, The ONEder Man all i'm saying is clinton should have done was bush is doing now, homeland security etc... posted by The ONEder Man |
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TheChosenOne: Also, the next attack is coming from North Korea, the real threat. But does Bush make any mention of North Korea? No... As it was said on CNN: "Our troops are stretched to the breaking point" Reserve is used in Iraq already. All North-Korea needs to do is to attack the troops in Iraq. Cut them off from the main land... That's why Bush doesn't talk about this threat. Moreover just today the US refused to negotiate with North-Korea  Bush made the US very weak (to get it back to the topic). posted by knn |
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 knn: the anomaly: Quote: who learnt who to fly IN America! technically not correct as they actually did most of their training in germany 1) Technically 100% correct since they DID flight training in the US 2) I never heard of extensive flight training in Germany. Proof? All I know is that they did their training in a CIA flight school called "Huffmann Aviation School" "Huffman Aviation School" CIA Atta ♣ this was indeed the place where large planes were learned mohammed atta also did flight training long before in the phillipines and another of the hijackers did training at the albatros flight school in Bonn,Germany the other 2 terrorists did other flight training at several private flight schools in america...as far back as 1996 here is a link for time lines. its a confusing link at times and its long but worth reading some of it is speculation and is regarded as such  posted by the anomaly |
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 You keep on calling people liberals, but it seems like a rather arbitrary term. I'm a supporter of the conservative party in my country, but that doesn't mean that I have to support incompetence. Yet that seems to be exactly what conservative means in America... *shrugs* As for your free land being exploited, it must be noted that the terrorists were a recognised threat when they entered the country to have the flying lessons. However, the authorities decided to let them in and track them once they entered the country - but, oh shit, they lost them... It's all incompetence and I don't know why you are so desperate to excuse it. posted by fatpie42 |
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 Quote: mohammed atta also did flight training long before in the phillipines and another of the hijackers did training at the albatros flight school in Bonn,Germany Yeah and he learned reading in Saudi Arabia. What does it mean where they learnt it. Except if it is in America itself, because then it means, that Bush was sleeping. Quote: the other 2 terrorists did other flight training at several private flight schools in america...as far back as 1996 So your initial statement... Quote: technically not correct as they actually did most of their training in germany ... was wrong, because most of the training took place in the US. You statement was most probably based on the anti-German, anti-French news propaganda (of Foxnews or other dubious sources). Quote: the authorities decided to let them in and track them once they entered the country - but, oh shit, they lost them... Technically not correct: Quote: FBI, at lower levels, knew [but] never told me, never told the highest levels in the FBI. ... We could have caught those guys and then we might have been able to pull that thread and get more of the conspiracy. I'm not saying we could have stopped 9/11, but we could have at least had a chance.  posted by knn |
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Quote: Yet that seems to be exactly what conservative means in America COnservative nowadays in America mean, that the belief to do the right thing is more important than facts. I read it yesterday in a newspaper. They also wrote that the atmosphere is even so bad, that you get called "anti-american" if you try to cite facts. 
posted by knn |
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Quote: because you seem to forget we were attacked then too...all you care about is slamming bush so i bring in another president's failure It's unbelievable. Attacked with a handful of victims on home soil. How can you even compare this? Quote: ok specualtion indeed, what if the towers had fallen on clintons watch? would the same policies and wars be in effect as they are today? ahhh i think yes because CLINTON ATTACKED IRAQ IN RETALIATION, same intelligence used, same country attacked... As if we would know whether it was the same intelligence in 1993. It was NOT. Speculation indeed. It fell on BUSH's watch. posted by knn |
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Quote: ... was wrong, because most of the training took place in the US. You statement was most probably based on the anti-German, anti-French news propaganda (of Foxnews or other dubious sources). don't make nonsense accusations...the initial info i got was from a documentary based on information given by people linked to the terrorists...family members,fellow hamburg university sudents etc...i then went on to do a bit more research into it from various different sources as for where the info came from...what does it matter where it came from when it is documented fact? Quote: So your initial statement...
Quote: technically not correct as they actually did most of their training in germany ... was wrong, well...we will go back to your statement shall we? Quote: All I know is that they did their training in a CIA flight school called "Huffmann Aviation School" all you know...well that pretty much proves that you didn't know a whole damn lot...did you...besides it wasnt all of them...it was 2 of them Quote: Yeah and he learned reading in Saudi Arabia. What does it mean where they learnt it. Except if it is in America itself, because then it means, that Bush was sleeping. given that one of the hijacker was told around the same time(in 1996 on clintons watch)to study something useful to "the cause" and was informed that aeronautical engineering would be best...then it becomes quite apparent that the attacks were being planned at this point...so the fact that atta was training to fly at this point tells us that it was for the intention of flying a plane into a building so your point about him learning to read is totally irrelevant and makes you look stupid... as for the inteligence...if they learned to fly in germany...then doesnt it make the intelligence failures fall upon the shoulders of the germans?... posted by the anomaly |
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 the anomaly: ...so the fact that atta was training to fly at this point tells us that it was for the intention of flying a plane into a building I don't see how one could be deduced from the other. Learning to Fly = Planning to crash 
Sure in hindsight, it appears that way, but could intelligence agencies back then have reached the same conclusion - I doubt it. posted by Marl64 |
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Quote: the initial info i got was from a documentary based on information given by people linked to the terrorists...family members,fellow hamburg university sudents etc...i then went on to do a bit more research into it from various different sources I stated that most of the flight training took place in the US. I concluded that therefore it was BUSH's fault that they didn't catch them. Then you replied that that's "not correct as they actually did most of their training in germany", for which you still haven't got a proof, except this trial flight training of 1 guy. But I got something for you. Let's see what Dick Clarke, the counter-terrorism Czar who worked for 4 presidents and was mobbed out by Bush, has to say: Quote: in June 2001, we were so frustrated with the [Bush] administration's lackadaisical attitude toward terrorism that we no longer wanted to work on the issue. As obsessed as I was with going after al-Qaeda, I felt I had to get out of the terrorism business because I couldn't work for an administration that was treating it in such an unimportant way. and Quote: My view was that [the Bush administration] didn't either believe me that there was an urgent problem or was unprepared to act as though there were an urgent problem. And I thought, if the administration doesn't believe its national coordinator for counterterrorism when he says there's an urgent problem and if it's unprepared to act as though there's an urgent problem, then probably I should get another job. and Quote: In retrospect, many years after these attacks occurred, FBI and CIA began to say that things like the World Trade Center attack in 1993 might have been done by an early stage Al Qaida (= it wasn't even known that it was Al-Qaeda at that time)  and Quote: "If Condi Rice [= under Bush = 3000+ Americans killed in 8 months] had been doing her job and holding those daily meetings the way Sandy Berger did [= under Clinton = 35 Americans killed in 8 years], if she had a hands-on attitude to being national security adviser when she had information that there was a threat against the United States ... [the information] would have been shaken out in the summer of 2001," Clarke told King.  Quote: "What does a person do in this situation?" Mr. Clarke said. "The only thing the president does is, in May, he says, `I want to stop swatting flies.' But there's no evidence that he did anything. He keeps getting these meetings about the imminence of the threat but he doesn't seem to be doing anything about it."  In other words: Bush failed. Has NOTHING to do with Germany or France. posted by knn |
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you don't think that foreign intelligence agencies have a duty to pick up and report on known extremist groups planning attacks while within their borders...even if the targets are outwith their country? your accusation is that all the terrorists were learning to fly planes under the noses of the CIA for months and months and bush didn't do anything about it get a grip son...read the link and it tells you that there were loads of non CIA run flight training schools where these guys were learning to fly Quote: I don't see how one could be deduced from the other.
Learning to Fly = Planning to crash I learned something new, I guess well i guess you have...the attacks were being planned back then...atta was an extremist of the highest order...so did he turn into a regular nice guy at the weekends and go learning to fly to releive the stress of planning the downfall of western society...just happened to be that those plans involved him flying planes...and then crashing them into buildings you do bring up a good point the only solid intelligence came only 9 days before the attacks happened from a british report...that extremists were planning to use planes in an unconventional attack on the US...no dates or targets were given it is the very nature of the attack that the terrorists managed to elude the intelligence services...no bombs or explosives needed to be shipped in or aquired on US soil from people who could potentially report them they acted normal...lived in florida...went to the beach...one of them even got a job nothing looked suspicious at all. the only real criticism that can be levied is at the immigration control who never bothered to pick up on and investigate a few of the hijackers who's visa's had expired and were technicall illegal immigrants... posted by the anomaly |
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