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Quote: and therefor creationism is barely a hypothesis...correct? Correct. But the word "Religious idea" or "Faith" puts it clearer. posted by knn |
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| in-my-opinion.orgReligion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolvesReligious & Philosophical TopicsCreationism vs Evolution |
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Quote: i will also ask this question once more...if god created all life as separate things...why do they all share the same DNA?
i await the inevitable..."he made them all from the same thing" unsubstantiated guff He reused useful principles. If you are a programmer you will also reuse snippets of code. That's obvious. posted by knn |
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knn: Oh, and as I stated: For the evolution to work you would have to have the same "beneficial mutation" accidentaly occuring in a male and a female exemplar of the same species in the same area. And as I stated, that's BS! The beneficial mutation only needs to occur in one of the parents since half of both parents' chromosones are passed to their young. posted by fatpie42 |
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Quote: since half of both parents' chromosones are passed to their young. Yes, but the chromosomes have to be combined to 46 again(mother+father). If chromosomes differ too much from their original state breeding is not possible. Guppies (the small aquarium fish) have 46 chromosomes too, yet humans cannot interbreed with them. This is actually a security measure to prevent that humans with broken chromosomes can have children. posted by knn |
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not convinced. Any scientists in here want to help me out? posted by fatpie42 |
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Cannot interbreed OR their offsprings cannot interbreed. If they try to then an initial embryo may start to form, but is then spontaniously aborted. This happens also when 2 healthy humans make an embryo: If there's something wrong then the embryo is auto-aborted. That's why there is only Trisomy 21 (Down syndrome), Trisomy 13 (Patau Syndrome) and Trisomy 18 (Edward Syndrome). All other trisomies don't survive. And that's not even a gene mutation, a mere added chromosome. All I say is not valid for X and for y-Chromosomes. They are a bit different. All I say is not valid for smaller mutations. But we are talking here about evolution = The creation of species that cannot interbreed (housecats and pumas). Thus if you get a new species (that evolved from an old one) and this new species cannot interbreed with the old one, that means that the first male member of this new species had to interbreed with a female member of the new species (because he could not interbreed with a female member of the old species). OK, OK, this is possible but unlikely. More probably the new species would evolve because of inbreeding. But that doesn't create new features (= is not evolution in our sense). If you have a lonely island then the flies would probably get un-interbreedable with flies from the mainland. But they still stay flies. That is my point here. posted by knn |
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I guessed that coz of the whole infertile mules thing that I mentioned earlier. My friend who does genetics isn't here right now, but he seemed pretty sure that it only needed to be ONE of the parents. I'm afraid I need a second opinion here knn. posted by fatpie42 |
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is not really an applicable argument...i posted earlier regarding what they are...hybrids of horses and donkeys... almost all hybrids are infertile...including ligers(lion and tiger...while this renders them infertile...they end up rather large. knn Quote: If you have a lonely island then the flies would probably get un-interbreedable with flies from the mainland. But they still stay flies. That is my point here. knn...i understand your point...from this...but if they end up seperate species then that is micro evolution is it not there are fossilised example given of the link earlier of so called "intermediate species"...these include whale with feet structures etc here is also a good image of the fossilised evolution of the homanids [CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE] [CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE] posted by the anomaly |
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Quote: but if they end up seperate species then that is micro evolution is it not Imagine a human tribe and after thousands of years of incest in the deep jungle they become infertile with the rest of humanity. You are free to call them "a different species" and "microevolution", but I it's actually DNA degradation. They still say humans and they didn't gain any new features. Quote: there are fossilised example given of the link earlier of so called "intermediate species"...these include whale with feet structures etc Yep, devolution: Whale had feet and due to DNA degradation they lost them. In that direction everything is possible. The other direction needs some undiscovered forces at work. Quote: here is also a good image of the fossilised evolution of the homanids It's not. It just shows some skulls of different species. You just ASSUME by your wording (a trick, a trick!) that they are related. Maybe one species of them evolved from cats and the other from crocodiles. Their skulls look the same because... all skulls look the same. Now add a bit of fantasy and paint them the harier&dumber the older the skull is. posted by knn |
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Quote: Let's say algea would start to develop a small pair of eyes (again just an example). Since evolution needs millions of years the eyes would be first non-functional. IN OTHER WORDS: This "algea plus" would die more likely than the original algea. IN OTHER WORDS: Evolution must occcur in jumps Let's refine this a bit further and cite the following site (the whole page is a nice read) Another problem with evolution that continues to worsen is that it remains incapable of explaining how anything could evolve that doesn't make biological sense when incomplete. The wings of birds are the classic example: what good is half of one? Other examples abound. This is a problem that evolutionary theory has promised a solution to for a long time and not delivered. Worse even than visible examples like wings are the complex chemical reactions and molecular structures that living things are made of. This is the principal point of Darwin's Black Box (these micro-processes are the black boxes), a book too technical to be satisfying reading for the layman but that convincingly argues that many of these micro-processes make sense either complete or not at all. There are no plausible accounts of how they could have evolved from other simpler processes because as one hypothesizes back down the hypothetical chain of complexity, one comes to a point at which the process simply won’t work if it gets any simpler. At this stage, the process couldn’t have evolved from anything else because there is nothing simpler for it to have evolved from. And at this stage, the process is still far too complex to have been thrown together by any known non-living chemical event. At one time, knowledge of the complex processes of living things was limited enough, and hopes for the discovery of intermediate processes that they could have evolved from wide-open enough, that evolutionists could ignore this problem. But as biological research has progressed, this gap too has been filled with more and more inconvenient facts. As in the case of the other problems challenging evolution, the key thing here is the intellectual direction: research is consistently making the problem worse, not better. posted by knn |
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gives no examples of study to back up its claims...it merely gives trumped up examples of the godlessgeeks excuses the example given is of half developed wings so what are wings for...flight? then why are there massive numbers of flightless birds still in existance because wings don't just serve the purpose of flight...they are used to protect young...help incubate eggs...help maintain body temperature...etc etc so jumping to conclusion about them being half formed and therefor useless is quite futile...because half formed wings can still perform non flight functions that are essential for a species continuation posted by the anomaly |
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Quote: then why are there massive numbers of flightless birds still in existance They lost their wings thru devolution. That's the easiest answer. And the thing I cited was more about body chemistry. And he has a very valid point there. posted by knn |
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biochemistry is a massively complex area of biology but despite the link above...there are examples of biochemical processes that are resident in all living things...one of them being the most important...production of cytochrome used in respiration in the mitochondrial cristae within cells posted by the anomaly |
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this link you can also see examples of shared biochemical processes in a huge range of living things there is also the important point made about the similarity in structure of arms,wings and flippers with regards to bone structure...the main difference only being certain bone lengths posted by the anomaly |
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here is what i mean by complex...this is a simplified diagram of only 1 process of the thousands of known linked biochemical processes [CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE] posted by the anomaly |
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The time now is 22 May 2012, 07:47 php B.B. |