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Let me also state another thing: Since DEvolution occurs (e.g. radioactivity DESTROYS the genome of a life form) it must mean that Evolution (= new working genomes) must occur faster than devolution. When the atmosphere suddenly contained oxygen (= a poison until then) then it killed many life forms (= selection, devolution) but evolution was faster, of course. So evolutionists not only have the fact of evolution, but also the _speed_ of evolution. Evolution must be fast. But as always: I am not stating anything, except there is some unknown/undiscovered power (mathematical, physical, chemical, virological, spiritiual, ...) behind evolution, because otherwise evolution as the scientists claim it (= because of radioactivity = basically because the sun is shining) is impossible. posted by knn |
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| in-my-opinion.orgReligion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolvesReligious & Philosophical TopicsCreationism vs Evolution |
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holy_of_holies: Only true in the vast majority of cases; you are ignoring - willfully or out of misunderstanding - the possibility that the mutation confers a selective advantage. That's not enough: 1) The advantage must come without a greater disadvantage 2) The advantage must be already working and not being half ready, which is impossible in practically all cases, since only MANY mutations make one functioning advantage 3) The advantage must be so great that it isn't selected away soon. 4a) The advantage must happen at the same time in 2 animals, so that they can interbreed (= co-mutated partner) 4b) or must be of such type that it can be passed to children without a co-mutated It-is-not-possible. There are no such random mutations. holy_of_holies: Additionally, when you seek to apply this critique to evolution itself, you forget the vastness of geologic time. No way. Even in billions of years it's not possible with randomity. Please also note that since all the life form we know are here on earth, it also means that NOT ONLY this impossible random evolution happened, IT ALSO means that it happened again and again. It's not possible even in a trillion years. posted by knn |
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knn: The magazines "Science" and "Nature" report some astonishing facts: Both the chimpanzee and the human genome contain approximately 20,000-25,000 protein-coding genes in 3 billion base pairs of DNA. The current sequences of the human and chimp genomes are directly comparable over approximately 96 percent of their lengths, and these regions are 99 percent identical. In other words: It underlines my theory that the DNA doesn't create life forms but that life forms use the DNA to produce the chemicals they need. In other words: Evolution is not Evolution of the DNA, like I have stated in this thread many times. In other words: You could have 2 different life forms (mice and men) with 100% of same DNA. do you think that for massive differences in appearance that different species need massive differences in DNA structure and sequencing...this is not the case...a single change known as a single nucleotide polymorphism (snip) can cause massive changes in physical characteristics posted by the anomaly |
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knn: holy_of_holies: Only true in the vast majority of cases; you are ignoring - willfully or out of misunderstanding - the possibility that the mutation confers a selective advantage. That's not enough: 1) The advantage must come without a greater disadvantage 2) The advantage must be already working and not being half ready, which is impossible in practically all cases, since only MANY mutations make one functioning advantage 3) The advantage must be so great that it isn't selected away soon. 4a) The advantage must happen at the same time in 2 animals, so that they can interbreed (= co-mutated partner) 4b) or must be of such type that it can be passed to children without a co-mutated It-is-not-possible. There are no such random mutations. 1) Well if there were a greater disadvantage attendant upon the advantage, this would be a net disadvantage, would it not? So why not call it a disadvantage? 2)This is the all-time classic creationist argument against evolution. Even Darwin had to deal with this one in The Origin of Species, and the creationists today are a lot less sophisticated and knowledgeable than they were in the 19th century. I am not going to explain the phenomenon of regulatory genes ♣ to you because you seem to have not done your reading, and in any event you would say that such a thing is "impossible". 3) You don't understand genetics. 4a) You don't understand genetics. 4b) You don't understand genetics. [CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE] posted by holy_of_holies |
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holy_of_holies: 1) Well if there were a greater disadvantage attendant upon the advantage, this would be a net disadvantage, would it not? So why not call it a disadvantage?
2)This is the all-time classic creationist argument against evolution. Even Darwin had to deal with this one in The Origin of Species, and the creationists today are a lot less sophisticated and knowledgeable than they were in the 19th century. I am not going to explain the phenomenon of regulatory genes ♣ to you because you seem to have not done your reading, and in any event you would say that such a thing is "impossible". 3) You don't understand genetics. 4a) You don't understand genetics. 4b) You don't understand genetics. Nothing in your post disproves anything I wrote. You either refuse to answer ("You don't understand genetics") or introduce even another item that only hardly proves anything ("regulatory genes") except tor actually hint at what _I_ am saying: That genes are so complicated that they cannot be pure random. posted by knn |
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the anomaly: do you think that for massive differences in appearance that different species need massive differences in DNA structure and sequencing...this is not the case...a single change known as a single nucleotide polymorphism (snip) can cause massive changes in physical characteristics Examples? And please no illnesses. Illnesses would be selected away. And what do you mean my physical characteristics? SNP is another name for a special type of mutation and it doesn't change anything I have said. posted by knn |
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knn: the anomaly: do you think that for massive differences in appearance that different species need massive differences in DNA structure and sequencing...this is not the case...a single change known as a single nucleotide polymorphism (snip) can cause massive changes in physical characteristics Examples? And please no illnesses. Illnesses would be selected away. And what do you mean my physical characteristics? SNP is another name for a special type of mutation and it doesn't change anything I have said. a snp is the most common type of genetic variation...not a "special type"...of illnesses were selected away...there would be no illnesses...is that the case?...no as for the physical differences...you gave them yourself...tiny genetic differences between man and chimp...different species...different look posted by the anomaly |
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the anomaly: a snp is the most common type of genetic variation...not a "special type"... Sorry for my English. I meant "certain type". the anomaly: as for the physical differences...you gave them yourself...tiny genetic differences between man and chimp...different species...different look Oh, that's what you meant by physical: phenotypes. I don't think that SNP (= single nucleotide polymorphisms) would be enough to lead to another species. But even if this would be possible, then the new life form would come into being not DIRECTLY because of the mutation, but because the plan of the life form has changed and now has to use the altered proteins to make the best out of it. At least in my humble hypothesis. posted by knn |
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knn: I don't think that SNP (= single nucleotide polymorphisms) would be enough to lead to another species. But even if this would be possible, then the new life form would come into being not DIRECTLY because of the mutation, but because the plan of the life form has changed and now has to use the altered proteins to make the best out of it. At leats in my humble hypothesis. You're making a debate over creationism vs. evolution into a tautological quibble over nature vs. nurture. What happened to the magical "organizing source"? I miss him/her/it! It gave me a good laugh to hear a programmer/webmaster explain his fantastic theory on speciation and evolutionary processes. But seriously, there is a such thing as a germ line, KNN. Sexual reproduction occurs. Unless you are going to dispute that, nature wins over nurture when you're talking about genetics; that is, until genetic engineering comes in. Unless your "organizing source" has been engineering us from day one, nothing you have said comes close to trumping natural selection. The best argument anyone has yet come up with for a new paradigm to supersede natural selection is punctuated equilibrium ♣, and even that is generally regarded as a footnote to NS. posted by holy_of_holies |
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holy_of_holies: But seriously, there is a such thing as a germ line, KNN Exactly. This underlines my hypothesis: A species doesn't change much throughout thousands of years and random mutations don't lead to a new species. holy_of_holies: Unless your "organizing source" has been engineering us from day one Of course from day 1. holy_of_holies: nothing you have said comes close to trumping natural selection. Trump selection? You still don't seem to understand what I am talking about. Selection _kills away_ species. Only genetical mutation (in the currently accepted scientific theory) "makes" new species. Selection only "takes" species. That has been posted already in this thread. Thus my theory doesn't trump selection. Of course selection exists. If the temperature raises by 30 degrees then it will kill away some species. Who could doubt that. My statements are regarding HOW NEW SPECIES come into being. Thus my statements contradict not selection, but "radioactivity causes evolution". holy_of_holies: The best argument anyone has yet come up with for a new paradigm to supersede natural selection is punctuated equilibrium, and even that is generally regarded as a footnote to NS. If my hypothesis is true, then punctuated equilibrium (= species are stable, evolution happens in pushes) would probably exist. If the "random mutation" theory is true, then punctuated equilibrium would not exist. And so far practically all findings hint at the stability of species. posted by knn |
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The time now is 22 May 2012, 07:51 php B.B. |