In-My-Opinion.org

»Did Mary Magdalene and Jesus have a baby?«





Did Mary Magdalene and Jesus have a baby?

   
No
51%
 51%  [ 18 ]
Don't know/Don't care
25%
 25%  [ 9 ]
Yes
22%
 22%  [ 8 ]
Number of users, who voted: 35
Number of counted votes: 35




Register first to vote here.

posted by Echelon
  

in-my-opinion.org -> Religion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolves -> Religious & Philosophical Topics -> Did Mary Magdalene and Jesus have a baby?

I can tell...



..that Echelon is one of the victims that have surrendered to the religious ideas presented in a novel. Since when do we start doing that...?


posted by nocturnal_anonymous
  

I have changed your poll



Of course "it's possible". Per definition. He was a man, she a woman, they knew each other. I have changed it to "Yes" and "No"

posted by knn
  

If Jesus had a child



it would have been worshipped just as he was. It would have been seen as divine and there is no reason why any Christian would stand in the way of such worship.

On the other hand, the merovingian kings lived far away in France and the idea that the descendants of Christ should happen to become royalty in a far away country and not be respected as such by anyone but the people of that country is ridiculous. The only explanation is that the merovingian kings made it up in order to solidify their position on the throne.

There is no evidence in the gnostic gospels or leonardo da vinci's paintings to suggest that Jesus was married to mary, never mind had children with her.

The gnostic gospels showed a 'relationship' between Mary and Jesus. This relationship may not even have been intended as literal and historic since Mary was often equated with the female character of the trinity Sophia, who is both the goddess of wisdom and the holy spirit. The gnostic texts are often very symbolic in their writing with similar use of metaphor to that found in the gospel of John as opposed to the more historical and factual writing of the Matthew, Mark or Luke.

posted by fatpie42
  "The beauty of the Superman came to me as a shadow. What are the gods to me now!"

Name a child



Quote:
If Jesus had a child it would have been worshipped just as he was

1) Not necessarily. His brothers aren't worshipped either.
2) Considering how chaste Catholic priests are (they even argue that they gain strength by being sex-less), I would say, that a child would undermine Jesus position
3) Please name a child of a religion founder that worshipped.


posted by knn



1)His brothers aren't divine because they were the children on Mary and Jospeph - not Mary and God.

2) The taboo of sexual practices mostly comes from the writings of Paul, not the accounts of Jesus' teachings found in the gospels.

3) Even today the Dalai Lamas reincarnations are seen as divine. Obviously those aren't literally his children, but they are essentially 'divine children'.

In the egyptian religion every pharoah would be considered to be a God. Since the pharoah's (like most kings) passed their position to their children this is clear case of their children being worshipped. The same goes for the Caesars in Rome.

posted by fatpie42
  

No kids were worshipped



Quote:
2) The taboo of sexual practices mostly comes from the writings of Paul, not Jesus.

Yeah, but now you try to reinvent Christianity White laugh
Who cares where they come from? They are taught.
Quote:
Even today the Dalai Lamas reincarnations are seen as divine. Obviously those aren't literally his children

Exactly. They aren't his children AT ALL. He himself lives sex-less.
Quote:
In the egyptian religion every pharoah would be considered to be a God. Since the pharoah's (like most kings) passed their position to their children this is clear case of their children being worshipped.

Yes, but whatever the term "god" means. I highly doubt that it is in the sense we use it today. Moreover I think they were "worshipped" as the new pharao, not because they were his children.
Quote:
The same goes for the Caesars in Rome

And which of them was a religion founder whose kids were worshipped?


posted by knn
  



You asked questions and I answered them. My answer to (2) was merely to point out that anti-sex teachings would not have changed whether Jesus' child was worshipped!

The Caesars were worshipped as Gods and so were their children. The pharoahs were worshipped as Gods and so were their children. The Dalai Lama has reincarnations in children and these are worshipped - bit different I know, but still relevant.

Why should Jesus' children be any different?

It should be added that in Islam Mohammed wasn't seen as God. In Judaism none of the prophets were seen as God. In Hinduism there were incarnations of Ram which should be seen in a similar way to the sitiuation of the Dalai Lama (reincarnations are worshipped - not children)

I'm sorry. I am all for a healthy argument Knn, but when you dismiss any answer I give as 'unworthy of consideration' it gets a bit tiring.

posted by fatpie42
  

Religion founders



Quote:
You asked questions and I answered them. My answer to (2) was merely to point out that anti-sex teachings would not have changed whether Jesus' child was worshipped!

Hmm, so Jesus would have had a child and yet Paul would have suggested to stay away from women?
Quote:
The Caesars were worshipped as Gods

Yes, but I asked about religion founders.


posted by knn
  

Re: Religion founders



knn:
Hmm, so Jesus would have had a child and yel Paul would have suggested to stay away from women?

Exactly! So Jesus couldn't have had a child! If he had, Paul would not have come up with the anti-sex doctrine that he did! Paul's teaching was based on the life and teachings of Jesus, so if Jesus had had a child, Paul would not have come up with an anti-sex theology.

I don't see what being a 'founder' has to do with it. Abraham was the founder of Jesus' religion.


posted by fatpie42
  

Prove your point.



Quote:
Abraham was the founder of Jesus' religion

Yup, and his children were not worshipped. Look, you said...
Quote:
If Jesus had a child it would have been worshipped just as he was

...so I asked you to give me an example where children of other religion founders have been worshipped to prove your point.


posted by knn
  



Quote:
I can tell...that Echelon is one of the victims that have surrendered to the religious ideas presented in a novel. Since when do we start doing that...?

What makes you say that? Just because I started a poll on this subject it doesn't mean that I "surrender" to the theories presented in "The Da Vinci Code". Anyway, I think that the theory makes a lot of sense if you take into consideration two things:

1) The history of the Christian (Catholic) Church. It didn't have a sincere start, it was founded by Emperor Constantine about 400 years after Jesus' death out of convenience not out of convinction(which is why I don't know why Catholics insist that Jesus himself founded their church). So if they wanted to erase something such as this they definitely would have done everything in its power, including murdering key people.

2) Jews don't believe Jesus was the son of God, or "The Messiah". So, a son of his would have never been worshipped.

I'm only stating that it makes sense, and that it's possible. And of course that is no proof of it's veracity. Please don't insult my intelect by making such statements as "Echelon is one of the victims that have surrendered to the religious ideas presented in a novel.". I know better than that. Not again


posted by Echelon
  "We turn to religion as a source of comfort and strength in a world torn apart ... by religion" - Jon Stewart



Fatpie42:
So Jesus couldn't have had a child! If he had, Paul would not have come up with the anti-sex doctrine that he did!

How can you be so sure that Pauline teachings were not manipulated?


posted by Echelon
  

Wikipedia: Da Vinci Code



Just wanted to throw this cool link in:


posted by knn
  

Well there ya go!



As I have said before, Constantine did not run the Byazantine church. He was more of a figure head for it like Queen Elizabeth is the figure head leader of the Anglican Church. He was repsonsible for the rise to power of Christianity because he made it the state religion after Jesus was supposed to have come to him in a dream and promised him victory in his next battle.

Now let's look at knn's link:
Quote:
Because of the novel's claim to contain elements of historical truth within its fictional framework, many have viewed The Da Vinci Code as a genuine exposé of orthodox Christianity's past. As a result, the book has attracted a generally negative response from the Christian community, as well as from historians dismayed by the way Dan Brown has in their view distorted—and in some cases fabricated—history. Criticisms cover:

the claim that prior to AD 325, Christ was considered no more than a "mortal prophet" by his followers, and that it was only as a consequence of Emperor Constantine's politicking and a close vote at the First Council of Nicaea that Christianity came to view him as divine: this has been debunked with extensive reference to the Bible and Church Fathers by various authors. (Example (http://www.envoymagazine.com/PlanetEnvoy/Review-DaVinci-part2-Full.htm#Full).) At the Council, the central question was if Christ and God were one, or whether instead Christ was a created being, inferior to the Father (see Arianism).
the claim that Mary Magdalene was of the tribe of Benjamin: this is unsupported by any historical evidence. The fact that Magdala was located in northern Israel, whereas the tribe of Benjamin resided in the south, weighs against it;
the idea that the purported marriage of Jesus and Mary Magdalene would create a "potent political union": According to the Gospels, Jesus clearly stated that his kingdom "is not of this world"; if, on the other hand, Jesus was merely a "mortal prophet" seeking to establish only a political kingdom, he failed;
the assertion that "the sacred feminine" has been suppressed by Christianity: In Roman Catholicism, for example, Mary (of Nazareth), the mother of Jesus, is specially venerated as the "Mother of God," the "Queen of Heaven," the spiritual mother of all mankind, and is believed to be free of sin; (It is hypothesized that Mary's Virginal nature does not accord with Brown's ideals);
the allegation that five million women were burned by the Church as witches: the most reliable estimates—including those not executed at the Church's recommendation, not killed by burning, and not female—range from 30,000 to 50,000;
the assertion that the original Olympics were held in honour of Aphrodite: they were celebrated for Zeus Olympias;
the theory that Gothic architecture was designed by the Templars to record the secret of the sacred feminine: historians note that Templars were not involved with cathedrals of the time, which were generally commissioned by European bishops;
the depiction of the Templars as builders, guild-founders and secret-bearers: Templar historians point to abundant evidence that Templars did not themselves engage in building projects or found guilds for masons, and that they were largely illiterate men unlikely to know "sacred geometry" purportedly handed down from the pyramids' builders;
the portrayal of the Priory of Sion as an ancient organisation: while the Priory is a genuine organisation claiming to have been the Templars' driving force, most historians suspect it originated in the aftermath of World War II on the grounds that it registered with the French government in 1956 and only became widely-known in 1962 (see Pierre Plantard);
the suggestion that all churches used by the Templars were built round, and that roundness was considered an insult by the Church: some churches used by the Templars were not round, and those that were round were so in tribute to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre;
the contention that the Mona Lisa was painted as a self-portrait: art historians are almost unanimous in holding the painting to be of a real woman, Madonna Lisa, wife of Francesco di Bartolomeo del Giocondo.

Many have held the novel's historical defects to be so serious and numerous as to warrant separate works debunking it; several books such as Carl Olson and Sandra Miesel's The Da Vinci Hoax have been written in an attempt to expose what critics perceive as Brown's many errors.



posted by fatpie42
  



Goto page
1, 2  Next

Reply to topic
Goto page
1, 2  Next






RegisterRegister
Log inLog in
The time now is 23 May 2012, 06:11
php B.B.