»Iran's Ayatollahs would vote for Bush«
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 The experts who claimed that a win for Bush in the presidential election 2004 is a big gift for Al-Qaeda seem to be right: Iran, part of the "Axis of Evil" would vote for Bush. The head of Iran's security council said Tuesday that the re-election of President Bush was in Tehran's best interests... Kerry, who says halting nuclear proliferation will be a priority if he becomes president, believes Bush should have done more diplomatically to curb Iran's alleged nuclear weapons ambitions. posted by knn |
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| in-my-opinion.orgPoliticsBush, Kerry, IraqIran's Ayatollahs would vote for Bush |
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 hey, I thought you said bush couldnt get the support of the world? I think you owe him an apology. the reason this guy says iran would rather have bush is because historically, democrats have been harder to deal with (which doesnt have a damn thing to do with bush) and because bush kicked the shit out of saddam and the taliban (who iran hated). they are going on the assumption that the political moaning about iraq will scare bush enough to prevent him from doing anything drastic against iran (a very stupid bet, but that fits their track record) and that kerry wouldnt face those same obstacles. in other words, they are betting on bush being a typical douche bag politician who cares more about his own political survival than he does about the fate of the world (and therefore, would back off from any major action because he's afraid the michael moore crowd will eat him alive). now despite what you may think, and what you hear from the character assassins, this does not match bush at all. everyone who actually knows him (his crtitics included) will tell you that you see is what you get. that he is an honest man with tremendous character. and of course, that's assuming this isnt just a little revers psychology... posted by makeitstop |
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Quote: the reason this guy says iran would rather have bush is because historically, democrats have been harder to deal with (which doesnt have a damn thing to do with bush) and because bush kicked the shit out of saddam Hehe, your argument seems to be valid UNTIL you realize that ›Ahmad Chalabi‹ was an Iranian double spy who mis-informed the US into war. In other words: Bush was Iran's puppet and the Ayatoallahs are still laughing. And of course they are happy with Bush's wrongs targets: Now the US military is weakened and cannot go against Iran so easily. posted by knn |
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you mean, bush wasnt lying? you mean, he didn't make everything up so he could steal iraqi oil? you mean, he didn't just want to get even with saddam for trying to assassinate his dad? you mean, he was actually basing his decision on outside information that turned out be false? I'm shocked. welcome to the middle east. everyone is a traitor. everyone is a triple agent. everyone is a criminal and a lier and a cheat and everyone wants to see everyone else dead and merely lists them by priority. it's a dirty place, and when you try to clean it up, you'll get dirty too. short of nuking the whole place, there is no way to fix the middle east that wont force you to work with corruption and double crossing bastards. and, because everyone hates everyone in the middle east, it isnt surprising that the iranians are glad saddam is gone. now they have a chance to try and take it over from within. but I guarantee you this: they are absolutely scared shitless of a free iraq. they have been fighting a losing battle in their own country to suppress the masses, who want freedom and identify more with america and the west than with the savages they see running their own country. a free nation right next door would only stir up more unrest in iran, and that would cost them dearly. for a group that hates freedom with extreme passion, the idea of freedom spreading around them is scary as all hell. and you know what, america could still kick the crap out of iran. we have the resources. we arent prepared for a total take over of the country (you see what happens when you hack away at the military for a decade, it used to be we could fight 2 other superpowers with room for another war on thwe side.) but we could definately beat them into the ground to whatever extent we choose. whether we go with surgical strikes or wipe out their entire military from the air, they don't stand a chance. and because iran isnt bribing the international community, and nukes are a threat to the rest of the world, I think if we use a little persuasion (translation: put the fear of god into those bastards around the world would rather play politics than actually fix a damn thing) we could get international support. honestly, I don't think kerry has the balls to get our enemies (france and china) to support us. bush on the other hand, ok well, I'll admit, I don't think he's gonna do it either, but at least the chances are better. oh fuck it, let's just hire some pmc's and let them take care of the place until we're ready. god knows they'd do a hell of a lot better than the un ever would. posted by makeitstop |
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Quote: you mean, bush wasnt lying? you mean, he didn't make everything up so he could steal iraqi oil? you mean, he didn't just want to get even with saddam for trying to assassinate his dad? you mean, he was actually basing his decision on outside information that turned out be false? I'm shocked. Why not? He based his decision on double-spies AND went to Iraq for oil. I see no contradiction. Quote: short of nuking the whole place, there is no way to fix the middle east that wont force you to work with corruption and double crossing bastards. US is the only country supporting Israel. Why? Because of religious standards (Israel must be secured for Jesus to come back). Thus in reality you have a constant religious war going on there. Another possibility why US supports Israel is because the Israeli secret service is doing some dirty work for the US (while Israel itself is unassailable because everyone who accuses Israel is a anti-semite). Another possibility why US supports Israel is because the Israeli secret service blackmails US presidents. Why do I say this? Because if your "corruption" is just 5% of the problem you will never solve it. Quote: and you know what, america could still kick the crap out of iran. we have the resources. At least Bush says so... until North-Korea goes with Iran. And China kicks in. And Europe looks and says "Well deserved, bomb Texas".  Quote: whether we go with surgical strikes or wipe out their entire military from the air, they don't stand a chance. Start a new thread  
posted by knn |
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knn: Quote: you mean, bush wasnt lying? you mean, he didn't make everything up so he could steal iraqi oil? you mean, he didn't just want to get even with saddam for trying to assassinate his dad? you mean, he was actually basing his decision on outside information that turned out be false? I'm shocked. Why not? He based his decision on double-spies AND went to Iraq for oil. I see no contradiction. then look closer. it is contradictory to say bush started a war for oil (btw, then why thell am I paying an arm and a leg at the pump? and don't say haliburton, because they don't control crude oil prices. for that matter, why arent we just drilling for oil here? we have oil. it can be drilled. why a whole bloddy war and the tremendous costs to get oil when we can just drill our own?) and then to say based his decision on bad inteligence. if he based his decision on this information, than he didn't base it on how much money he could make for his rich buddies by stealing oil. and if he knew they were lies, then he obviously didn't base his decision on them, so that doesnt make sense either. so which is it? oil, or bad inteligence? Quote: Quote: short of nuking the whole place, there is no way to fix the middle east that wont force you to work with corruption and double crossing bastards. US is the only country supporting Israel. Why? Because of religious standards (Israel must be secured for Jesus to come back). Thus in reality you have a constant religious war going on there. no, (most jewish support for israel is more ethnic and cultural than religious. and they don't care about jesus, obviously. plus, jesus can come back anytime he wants. it's called omnipotence, look into it) the reason the us supports israel is because it is the only democracy in a region of dictatorships. and because they were our friends during the cold war. and because they are being attacked by terrorists, and we don't like terrorists. and because they are the single most loyal ally we have. and because the jews have gotten a raw deal for the last few millenia, and we're tired of it. and because israel is the underdog, and we love the underdog. and because the people of america support israel, and no one can win in politics on any major level if they oppose it. and because the same guys who want israel to burn, also want to see america burn. shall I continue? Quote: Another possibility why US supports Israel is because the Israeli secret service is doing some dirty work for the US (while Israel itself is unassailable because everyone who accuses Israel is a anti-semite). yeah that's right, all those people who keep talking about massive the jew conspiracy are the rational ones. so israel's inteligence guys work with ours, woo hoo. is that a bad thing? you would prefer they didn't cooperate with us? Quote: Another possibility why US supports Israel is because the Israeli secret service blackmails US presidents. that's a whole lot of presidents, you'd think at least one of them would have done something about it, wouldnt you? Quote: Why do I say this? Because if your "corruption" is just 5% of the problem you will never solve it. and if you refuse to go near it, you will never get anything done at all. they will be able to do whatever they want, and a century from now, there will be no america left. trying to fix the massive probelms of the world without dealing with shady characters is like trying to perform surgery when you faint at the sight of blood. there's no getting around it. the world is corrupt. humanity itself is corrupt. that is the way it is, and any notions to the contrary are mere fantasy. Quote: Quote: and you know what, america could still kick the crap out of iran. we have the resources. At least Bush says so... until North-Korea goes with Iran. And China kicks in. And Europe looks and says "Well deserved, bomb Texas". no, I say so. I know, I've been keeping track for a very long time. we have absolute air superiority. that alone is enough to decimate iran (and north korea, and china) and the gap is only getting bigger. but not only that, our ground forces can beat any military on earth, bar none. the only reason we are having trouble in iraq, is becasue we are holding back. the bad guys are hiding and using shrines and innocent people as shields, and we arent willing to go in guns blazing just yet. if it was a war against iran, north korea, china and france, we wouldnt bother holding back, and they wouldnt have the option of hiding. you know what, we can take em. believe me, if china thought they could take us on they would. hell, north korea is still at war with us. the only reason we are still here is because no nation is crazy enough to take on the sole superpower. and because they know that if push came to chove, and anyone tried to use nukes against us, we would not hesitate to turn their entire country into a steaming radioactive crater. that is the only reason america (and all other free counrties that would follow) is still here. Quote: whether we go with surgical strikes or wipe out their entire military from the air, they don't stand a chance. Quote: Start a new thread not today, but maybe later posted by makeitstop |
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 makeitstop: ...if it was a war against iran, north korea, china and france, we wouldnt bother holding back, and they wouldnt have the option of hiding. Why? Don't they have a civilian population? makeitstop: you know what, we can take em. believe me, if china thought they could take us on they would. perhaps they don't do things just for show  makeitstop: hell, north korea is still at war with us. the only reason we are still here is because no nation is crazy enough to take on the sole superpower. and because they know that if push came to chove, and anyone tried to use nukes against us, we would not hesitate to turn their entire country into a steaming radioactive crater.. So, nothing learned then. 
posted by Marl64 |
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 Quote: So, nothing learned then. marl what grand moral lesson would you like the US to learn? to stop beheading people? oh wait that wasn't us...uhh.. how about to stop the chemical bombings of our own people that we toss in mass graves? oh wait that wasn't us either...hmm...to not use mosques and hospitals as safe havens putting those innocent people in jeopardy? damn! not us either... well um...are you mad because the US seems cocky? if you've ever heard a woman complain about cockiness, but liking a man with confidence then you know there is a subtile difference(most of us men can't see it  )
posted by The ONEder Man |
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The ONEder Man: ...are you mad because the US seems cocky? I'm used to the cockyness, but at the same time am aware it's that same cockyness that the U.S. is often criticised for. I find it a slightly troubling thought that Bush has his finger on the button waiting for someone to "try it on" I find it more troubling that someone would suggest that "next time we won't spare the general populus when we attack a country"
Seems like a lot of people are having trouble getting past the whole "axis of evil" mentality. posted by Marl64 |
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Quote: then look closer. it is contradictory to say bush started a war for oil (btw, then why thell am I paying an arm and a leg at the pump? He started the war for oil AND based his planning ("They will bring flowers to the troops") on a double-spy. Where's the contradiction? Quote: we have oil. it can be drilled. It's other quality and it's more expensive. Iraq had the best oil, a few centimeters beneath surface. Quote: and if he knew they were lies, then he obviously didn't base his decision on them, so that doesnt make sense either. so which is it? Then it's even worse. Because he based his decision on his talk with god but presented the LIES as facts. Actually I wanted to come to Bush's defense by stating that he was a puppet of Iran. Quote: most jewish support for israel is more ethnic and cultural than religious. No, the support is typical in conservative/Republican circles. The Democratic jews critisize Israel more. Quote: the reason the us supports israel is because it is the only democracy in a region of dictatorships Could be, but now after Bush took office it merely sounds like another propaganda spin. Israel is the cristallisation point for hate in the world. Thus you contradict yourself. Quote: and no one can win in politics on any major level if they oppose it. Now THAT makes sense. But reduces politics to emotion-propaganda. Quote: and because the same guys who want israel to burn, also want to see america burn. Yes, but this is because US supports Israel. In the very moment where US dropped the support things would cool down for the US. Quote: yeah that's right, all those people who keep talking about massive the jew conspiracy are the rational ones. You see, exactly what I am talking about. Did I mention any Jewish conspiracy? No. But, zzzzt, accusations fly. It shows how powerful this indoctrinated stimulus-response is. Even intelectual guys like you are the victim of it as your post proves. You are a victim of the "There is no Jewish conspiracy"-conspiracy. The minds have been so deeply infiltrated with this, that Mossad (the Jewish secret service) is the PERFECT partner for the US to do dirty jobs.Quote: that's a whole lot of presidents, you'd think at least one of them would have done something about it, wouldnt you? Not if the guys who want to become president are pre-selected (= only Israeli puppets can become president) or killed in office. Quote: and if you refuse to go near it, you will never get anything done at all Who refuses to go against corruption? But if it's only 5% of the problem then you solve only 5% of the problem. Quote: we would not hesitate to turn their entire country into a steaming radioactive crater.. Just add a little "preemptivity" and you wipe out any difference between terrorists and soldiers. posted by knn |
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 MAKEITSTOP IS THE MAIN MAN the idealogical world...fractured and fragmented and as fuedal as ever it was the difference now is the scale of it all and the tactics used by those who would be erradicated in a conventional conflict the web of funding for all these many different ideologys must be terrifyingly complex shady dealings behind closed doors which allow money to seep from ally to enemy in return for political leverage its the way it works and always will but for me it looks like its going to come to a head...there is an undenaible polarisation of western beleifs(non religious) of freedom etc and the perverted and distorted version of islam that fundamentalist countries and groups perpatrate the middle ground is those muslims who embrace western civilisation and it is this same group that both fundamentalist islam and the west are utterly failing to engage with these people hate the war in iraq and equally hate the acts of brutality inflicted by abu musab al zarqawi and his ilk on innocent people it is these people who will decide the balance of civil obedience in mixed cultures such as those in many British and american cities but neither side can be seen to pander to each other in anyway so at the moment it is a battle of will and in my view...if kerry gets in...and tries his "thoughtful" war on terror...then the terrorists will simply take advantage of any opportunity to launch another massive attack on a western target and the polarisation will increase further still posted by the anomaly |
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Quote: and in my view...if kerry gets in...and tries his "thoughtful" war on terror...then the terrorists will simply take advantage of any opportunity to launch another massive attack on a western target Hmm, 9/11 happened under Bush's watch. Iraq (= the terror recruitment base) happens because of Bush. I cannot see anything wrong with a little bit thoughts. Ayatollahs vote for Bush. Al-Qaeda votes for Bush. I think that says it all. Other than that: I don't understand your post. 
posted by knn |
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if they don't like getting bombed...let them make the first move for peace we shouldnt budge an inch from the western ideology of freedom in order to pander to oppresive terrorists to do so by voting kerry is inviting the downfall of a society that allows us the freedom to express our opinion of forums like these posted by the anomaly |
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Quote: if they don't like getting bombed...let them make the first move for peace Wrong. Bush wants to KILL Usama Bin Laden. If it was like you suggest, they would negotiate at one table. It's Bush who REFUSES to make peace. I am just restating your own arguments. Quote: to do so by voting kerry is inviting the downfall of a society Excuse me, but Bush wants to know what books you read. Not Kerry. It is always interesting to read the Bush supporters accuse Kerry of the things that Bush is already doing. posted by knn |
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the anomaly: if they don't like getting bombed...let them make the first move for peace Very rarely (if ever) does aggression inspire peace, more likely it just produces more hatred and desire for revenge. Consider how the U.S. reacted to 911, the suffering was accompanied by anger and hatred for those responsible. Suggested reasons why they were attacked, were mostly based on a foundation of "we are right, they are wrong" and so peace was never considered, instead they wanted "Justice". Why would any middle east country react differently? posted by Marl64 |
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