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Here is the timeline from GENESIS 3 (with direct citations from the bible):
As you can clearly see from the bible that god is a bad guy (= hater, suppressor, liar, selfish) while the serpent is the good guy (= telling the truth, trying to give Adam knowledge, pointing out god's lies). There is no sin on anyone's part except god's. This is since the beginning of Judaism a problem: Why is god so mean, and why did he want to keep Adam's and Eve's eyes closed? posted by knn |
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| in-my-opinion.orgReligion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolvesReligious & Philosophical TopicsGod vs Serpent - the real story without bible smear campaign |
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Throughout history the Serpent has represented knowledge ...and not in a bad way. Caduceus [CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE] posted by Marl64 |
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The truth is that this part of the bible is pure propaganda spin. There were 2 groups: "The Elohims" (the bible actually uses the plural "gods") and "The Snakes". Kinda cool names. The Snakes lost. The Elohims won. Since then the bible contains this one-sided propaganda with the truth hidden between the lines. The Elohims wanted to keep humans as stupid slaves. The Snakes wanted to free the humans. That's why The Elohims got so mad at The Snakes. posted by knn |
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The symbol you are showing, Marl64, is the "feathered snake". Such a "feathered snake symbol" is known thruout the cultures of the world. Some assume that The Snakes had some flying vehicles (feathered = flying). The Elohims punished The Snakes by destroying their vehicles. Thus the bible says: Quote: So the Elohim said to the serpent
"Because you have done this... you will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust". (= no more flying) posted by knn |
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Let me also throw in something else: Since some of you may believe in reincarnation, you may remember the Elohim-Snakes fights. Maybe you have a vague feeling whose side you were on. Please also note that in the whole bible (except for a few places) god is described unbelievably human (e.g. in my post above: Taking a walk to get some fresh air). Thus maybe some of the Elohim and Snakes are still walking somewhere. Maybe in your home town... posted by knn |
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serpent is the attention. Swift and nimble. Attention in itself is not good or bad. But attention towards the fruit (desires) of the eden, brings bondage/curse of births-deaths cycles. When attention is freed to rise (with wings as in caduceus symbol), it brings healing and peace. posted by blueSky |
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knn: The truth is that this part of the bible is pure propaganda spin.
There were 2 groups: "The Elohims" (the bible actually uses the plural "gods") and "The Snakes". Kinda cool names. The Snakes lost. The Elohims won. Since then the bible contains this one-sided propaganda. The Elohims wanted to keep humans as stupid slaves. The Snakes wanted to free the humans. That's why The Elohims got so mad at The Snakes. Where is your source for this stuff? posted by fatpie42 |
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I found a reference here "And there was strife in the heaven (1); [one] who is like El (2) and his messengers (3) fought against the serpent beast (4) and the serpent beast and his messengers fought and were not strong enough, neither was a place found of them any longer in the heaven. And the great serpent beast was cast - the old snake, (5) (the one being called accuser (6) and adversary), (7) the one deceiving the habitable whole, (8) was cast into (9) the earth, (10) and his messengers, were cast with him." End Notes
(1). Heaven, ouranos oo-ran-os', Greek, perhaps from the same as oros, or'-os, to rise, (through the idea of elevation); the sky; the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it, the universe, the world, the aerial heavens or sky; the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced; the sidereal or starry heavens; the region above the sidereal heavens; the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect; where God dwells and other heavenly beings. (2). Michael, mikh-ah-ale' who is like El" of Hebrew origin - as used in Scripture, is a name for several OT characters. It is also a general term, or a phrase, where the meaning rather than the name can be applied to anyone, who for the moment represents a leader for a cause, or at times is a leader for the cause of, or under the direction of Yahweh to correct wickedness. The term as used in this sense, may not belong to any one particular messenger, being celestial or terrestrial, but will then be a kind of "name type" used for a Champion, as a Captain, or a Prince of Yahweh's people. It is so employed in this passage, so as to denote Him who is the "Captain" of our salvation. (2a). El, ale, short form of elohim, Hebrew, strength, mighty, also the Almighty Yahweh, (but also used for any deity, i.e. "a g-d"). (3). Messenger, angel, angelos ang'-el-os, Greek, messenger, envoy, one who is sent, may be celestial beings sent from Yahweh, or terrestrial beings sent from man. (4). Dragon, drakon drak'-own, Greek, from an alternate form of derkomai; (to look), metaphorically, a dragon, a great serpent, serpent beast, or a name for an adversary. (5). Snake, ophis, of'-is, Greek, probably from Strong's 3700 (through the idea of sharpness of vision); a snake, serpent, figuratively (as a type of sly cunning) an artful malicious person; metaphorically with the ancients, the serpent was an emblem of cunning and wisdom in the negative sense. (6). Accuser, devil, diabolos dee-ab'-ol-os, Greek, false accuser, slanderer, a calumniator (a through caster); metaphorically applied to someone, who, by appearing to oppose the cause of good, may be said to act the part of an accuser, (7). Adversary, satan, Satanas sat-an-as' of Aramaic origin corresponding to Strong's 4566 (with the definite affix); adversary; one who opposes another in purpose or act. (8). Habitable whole, accurate translation of the Greek, many times translated as "the whole world." The reference here is to the known populated area of those to whom the message is addressed. To extend this understanding as global influence is conjecture. (9). Into, eis, eis, Greek, preposition with the accusative, into, to, in, at, on, upon, by near, among, against, concerning, as. (10). Earth, gen, ges, Greek, the earth, land, country, region, soil, ground, metaphorically man in general. (11). Hell = the grave, or, to be covered. But as stated by knn, this is the view of the followers of El, so might be a tad biased posted by Marl64 |
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Marl64: (3). Messenger, angel, angelos ang'-el-os, Greek, messenger, envoy, one who is sent, may be celestial beings sent from Yahweh, or terrestrial beings sent from man. I want also to add that some of the members of the Elohim wanted to have sex with humans. After all human bodies have been designed after the Elohim bodies: Genesis 1,26/27: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness... So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. " (= 2 legs, 1 mouth and... breasts Some of them actually had sex with a few human females: Genesis 6: "When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, Elohim's sons saw that the daughters of men were beautiful [= sexy], and they married any of them they chose... Elohim's sons went to the daughters of men and had children by them." (That should actually remind you of modern abduction stories, where the abducted women talk about sexual "experiments") Due to some body incompatibility the children were giants (some women actually died before birth because of the sheer size of the fetus). One descendant was Goliath, whose armor/clothes alone weighted 100 kilograms. posted by knn |
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Quote: it's obvious that Elohim got angry with humans cause they became like god and wanted to stop them to get eternal life. It's simply mean. obvious? to you maybe...why make the tree accessible to man if that were the case? if you were completely and utterly against say your child from getting a cookie, would you sit it on the table and say don't touch these(in which the child will most likely touch them) or do you put them in the cabinet where the child cannot reach them? posted by The ONEder Man |
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The ONEder Man: obvious? Obvious! "And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." Please note, that we don't know what "the tree" is. Maybe it's something totally different. I know of no tree that gives you knowledge, so it's safe to assume that it's some kind of psycho-pharmacy/computer/tool or whatever. So maybe the Elohim miscalculated the intelligence of the humans (especially when helped by the Snakes). Just think of typical translation errors: You say "Finger off my Apple" (= the computer) and then this gets translated from generation to generation as "apple fruit" posted by knn |
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Quote: Are you talking about a TREE? Give me a break! you didn't answer my question and since when did knn make things black and white =snakes vs elohims? ps i'm not sure of this stuff you speak of i also have an ignorant question, why do you believe that when they learned of good and evil they covered themselves? i've never be able to make that coralation posted by The ONEder Man |
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The ONEder Man: i've never be able to make that coralation They gained consciousness. From animal to human. Animals have no morals. Or they have been slaves because of some hypnosis/drugs. Thus the tree of knowledge could actually be really something to eat: An antidote. The ONEder Man: you didn't answer my question Yes I did. The Elohims miscalculated the influence of the Snakes: "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the others". posted by knn |
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The ONEder Man: why do you believe that when they learned of good and evil they covered themselves? i've never be able to make that coralation Me neither knn: They gained consciousness. From animal to human. Animals have no morals. So nudity is immoral? Sounds more like modern* morality to me. It seems to me what would be more immoral, would be hiding what in essence was supposed to be Gods greatest work, as if it were something to be ashamed of. knn: The Elohims miscalculated the influence of the Snakes: "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the others". Miscalculated? Not very God like *By Modern I mean within the last, say, 1000 years posted by Marl64 |
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Marl64: Miscalculated?
Not very God like I would like to point out AGAIN that the whole old testament describes god incredible HUMAN.
Very human. Marl64: So nudity is immoral?
Sounds more like modern* morality to me. Nudity is neither immoral nor moral. The REALIZATION itself that one is naked is human. That's the point here. The bible could have also said:
The same thing. It shows a rise in consciousness. posted by knn |
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The time now is 9 January 2009, 23:04 php B.B. |