»US Christian vs. EU Christians«
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 knn: Christians in Europe are more like "Yeah, we marry in the church because of the nice party" or something like that. Bible has no real value. I know a lot of Christians who would find that offensive. Christians find the Bible valuable wherever they live. They don't necessarily all think that it denies scientific progress (stem cell research) or that it justifies intolerance (refusing gay marriages) or that people have as many rights as God (God kills people so why can't we? Capital punishment). But even so, they still take the Bible to be extremely important. posted by fatpie42 |
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| in-my-opinion.orgReligion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolvesReligious & Philosophical TopicsUS Christian vs. EU Christians |
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 fatpie42: I know a lot of Christians who would find that offensive. Christians find the Bible valuable wherever they live. Sure, there are a few left of them. After all this Christian implosion is only a few years old, thus the survivors still live. Quote: But even so, they still take the Bible to be extremely important. And you are sure they KNOW the bible? posted by knn |
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It's not like they don't read it often enough. There is just as much Christianity in Europe as there is in America, even if it isn't expressed in televangelism. You don't need to have people preaching in loud voices asking you to 'feel God in the room' on television channels in order to be truly Christian. posted by fatpie42 |
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fatpie42: You don't need to have people preaching in loud voices asking you to 'feel God in the room' on television channels in order to be truly Christian. But I expect them to do SOMETHING. How many of Catholics would be able to answer/do the following:
Nope, I don't think many. Paper Christians... posted by knn |
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They are not mutually exclusive. People may be both.
That depends on the individual as it would with any religion American reactions to the above would be much the same I should expect. I worry about your view of religion Knn. It's all very black and white with you. Here I am trying to accept all kinds of diversity and you just laugh in my face. It's very disconcerting. posted by fatpie42 |
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fatpie42: Catholic basically means Thanks for answering... but I didn't ask YOU  fatpie42: American reactions to the above would be much the same I should expect. Maybe, but they are not Catholics. Catholicism expresses very much the difference between itself and other religions. And after watching GodTV I don't have the feeling that they stick very much to the word of the bible. They emphasize more "Action Christianity". US Christians already prove that their belief is strong by voting for Bush because of gay/abortion issues. I don't see such movements in Europe. fatpie42: It's all very black and white with you. Here I am trying to accept all kinds of diversity and you just laugh in my face. It's very disconcerting. Whaaa? When I say "US Christians" I mean something like 80%-90%, not all of them. posted by knn |
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You are now trying to say that 80/90% of Christians are televangelists. I think you need some evidence towards that figure. It doesn't sound true at all. posted by fatpie42 |
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fatpie42: You are now trying to say that 80/90% of Christians are televangelists. I think you need some evidence towards that figure. It doesn't sound true at all. Yeah, more "Reborn Christians" like. That is pretty specific to the US. As stated at IMO → 90% of US Christians will always vote conservative 42% call themselves "Reborn Christians" or "Fundamentalist Christians". I was flabberghasted when I saw this number on CNN. I don't consider them as "Paper Christians". Just the fact that USAnians lie about how often they go to church (they declare twice as many visits as they really do) is astonishing (sorry, no link I read it in an offline magazine). I don't think many Europeans consider it such a virtue to go to church that they lie about the amount. posted by knn |
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Oh i see. You mean 80-90% of AMERICAN Christians are born-again fundamentalists. Even so I think there is something wrong with your suggestion that other denominations don't take the Bible to be so important. I think you'll find that other denominations take the Bible just as seriously as any born-again fundamentalists do. They may have different interpretations, or they may simply have a different way of approaching community life. But they do not differ in their reverance for the Bible and its teachings. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BTW the google link I pointed you to earlier was actually written by an evangelist. inclusivism ♣ Hmmm strange - this link was at the top last time I checked:  posted by fatpie42 |
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fatpie42: I think you'll find that other denominations take the Bible just as seriously as any born-again fundamentalists do. Of course. But where are they in Europe? A rare species. You know, when Cyprus joined the EU (a few month ago) they actually had to sign agreements that they only can join if they don't discriminate gays. posted by knn |
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Once again, you think someone is not Christian if they don't have express belief in discrimination! Don't forget that just because the religious community doesn't think gays should be discriminated against, it does not follow that they will allow them to be married. The only gay marriage done in Europe is done as a social contract rather than a religious ceremony. It seems like religion and state are separated far better in Europe than they are in America! posted by fatpie42 |
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fatpie42: Once again, you think someone is not Christian if they don't have express belief in discrimination! No, but what is left then? Don't go to church, don't know basic differences to other religions, don't follow any rules (= they live their life like without religion) and think that gay is ok, but call themselves Christians? What is left? They ARE Christians, but "Paper Christians" or "Lip Christians". I don't want to deny their right to call themselves "Christian" but I think it's a different quality than in the US where they consider "gay issues" so important that they vote for Bush despite of other topics such as economy. fatpie42: Don't forget that just because the religious community doesn't think gays should be discriminated against, it does not follow that they will allow them to be married. True, but it shows how "unchristian" Europe became. posted by knn |
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Look you are stating that a major part of Christian faith is intolerance to sinners. Actually if you read the BIBLE! (Y'know this thing you think European Christians don't care about?) you will see that Jesus (the role model for all Christians) ate with tax collectors, prostitutes and other sinful people who were shunned by society. Jesus said to those who wished to stone an adulterous woman "he who has no sin cast the first stone". He is described by John The Baptist as the man who comes to "take away the sin of the world". This is clearly highlighting that we are ALL sinners whether we are gay or straight, rich or poor, theif or miser. I don't like Bible-bashing, but when you have such a twisted view of New Testament teachings it seems impossible not to respond. It is not Christian to deny equality of rights to homosexual couples. It is however, a perfectly reasonable Christian view to deny them the rites equated with a 'holy joining together in the eyes of God'. That is why the marriage for gays is a social contract rather than a religious ceremony. posted by fatpie42 |
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fatpie42: Look you are stating that a major part of Christian faith is intolerance to sinners Where did I say that? fatpie42: Actually if you read the BIBLE! Bible is bible, but practice is practice. fatpie42: This is clearly highlighting that we are ALL sinners whether we are gay or straight, rich or poor, theif or miser. Of course, but some sin more than others (murder <> thinking about cheating in a test) posted by knn |
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knn: Of course, but some sin more than others (murder <> thinking about cheating in a test) Exactly, that's why we have the teaching "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" (ever see the movie 'Dead Man Walking'?). It is to protect homosexuals. If you don't cause any harm to anybody your punishment cannot receive a harmful punishment in return. (Unfortunately the blasphemy law was seen as an exception to this rule, being punishable by death despite having no physically harmful effects.) Anyway, you were saying that Europeans weren't real Christians because they weren't intolerant to homosexuals, right? Well could you please explain this without it sounding like Christianity is the source of all bigotry? posted by fatpie42 |
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