»Christians increase abortion rates«
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 stinkz: "millions of impoverished immigrants came to America from Europe in the early twentieth century without illegitimacy getting out of hand, thanks to strong religious traditions that stigmatized illegitimacy" And I am sure they can prove it by sound statistics from 100 years ago 
By the way, 100 years ago the average life expentancy was 35. Thus by definition there were practically no underage pregnancies because being pregnant with 18 was normal anyway. posted by knn |
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| in-my-opinion.orgReligion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolvesReligious & Philosophical TopicsChristians increase abortion rates |
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 stinkz: However, I would rather have my kids grow up in a place which ACTUALLY educates children on the morality of the issue. Another study that disproves stinkz: The study showed about 23 percent of ninth-grade girls, typically 13 to 14 years old, had sex before receiving abstinence education. After taking the course, 29 percent of the girls in the same group said they had had sex.
Boys in the tenth grade, about 14 to 15 years old, showed a more marked increase, from 24 percent to 39 percent, after receiving abstinence education. Abstinence-only programs, which have sprouted up in schools across the nation, cannot offer information about birth control and must promote the social and health benefits of abstaining from sex. Pruitt said he hoped the study would bring about changes in the content of abstinence-promoting programs. “These programs seem to be much more concerned about politics than kids, and we need to get over that,” he said. One program technique has been to try to bolster students’ self-esteem, based on the theory that self-confident teenagers would not have sex. Those programs, which sometimes do not even mention sex, have shown no effect, Pruitt said. In other words: The fastest way to increase under age sex is to push "abstinence programs". posted by knn |
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 Obviously, when this public education system, which has been undermining parental authority from the get-go suddenly attempts to teach morality, there is a problem. Government "abstinance programs" are not the answer, and never will be. The schools are forced to teach secularism. Therefore, the only argument that can be used for abstinance is one that appeals to benefits the kids will recieve later in life. Kids RARELY care about those things. They refuse to do homework, don't study, and do all sorts of activities which, had they any foresight, they would realize are harming them. The problem here is that "abstinance programs" can talk no more about morality than any other public school program. The morality in public schools is fixed on hedonism. And, with this outlook, it is impossible to expect kids to act morally. Give the authority back to the parents, and privatize schooling. THEN you will be able to see the difference. posted by stinkz |
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 what about abortion folks? interesting knn. still, a president's choice does have an effect, though you're right in that there're other factors that affect the abortion rate. i still feel safer if i was against abortion, to vote for bush. like you guys brought up, if you really want to examine all the factors that influence abortion, you can look at the amount of abstinence education, "safe sex" courses, the medical care, etc, etc. you get the point. but to me, its all petty details. posted by sangu |
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 stinkz: The cause for abortion is the lack shame in these kinds of immoral sexual behaviours. Religious belief would be the best solution for abortion. Wow, that's completely backwards. Conservative intolerance, combined with the economical difficulties of raising a child alone, are what promote abortions. I can completely see knn's point (tho I'd like stats on it), that a better economy results in fewer abortions. Teens will have sex, regardless as to whether or not they're taught about sex. Christians feel that by repressing teens and not teaching them about sex, that teens will not have sex. However, it only produces uneducated teenagers who engage in unprotected sex. Haven't people learned the lesson of the Garden of Eden yet? Make something forbidden and it's what humans will pursue above all! Kind of funny that non-Christians have learned that lesson but Christians have not... posted by Tiefling |
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 Look, it seems to be that we get all these unwanted pregnancies because of stupid kids who can't use a condom properly and decide to jump in bed with a girl at a really young age. What we should do is sterilise all the stupid people. It'd be better for everyone! You know it makes sense...   posted by fatpie42 |
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 fatpie42: What we should do is sterilise all the stupid people  Good idea! And at what age the stupidity will be measured? Must be long before they can make children, shouldn't it?
Any way, to be more serious. Tiefling: Christians feel that by repressing teens and not teaching them about sex, that teens will not have sex. Yup, probably. Like thinking that if they adopt the "Sex? What's that?" attitude they will prevent their children from being curious. Normal children start to be interested in the differences between sexes at four or five, looking, comparing. If an outraged parent will slap their hands and say that touching "that" is sin, how much will that help? stinkz: Give the authority back to the parents, and privatize schooling. THEN you will be able to see the difference. Stninkz's point of view, especially on this topic, remind me strongly of I mean, stinkz, I respect your point of view and kind of understand it, but please be more reasonlabe: you, every single one of us, all those teens live in a contemporary world. Even if you install schools run by best-wishing parents, even if you never talk about sex at home and ban books with doubtful information from your home, you cannot prevent your kid from seeing everything else - commercials, ads, girls in the streets, even seeing you yourself kissing your wife. Unless you create your own Village, you will have to adapt. And decide what is more important for you, to prevent your daughter from having an abortion or to prevent her from knowing about contraception. If you want abstinence-education, or "no sex exists" education, start with teaching kids who are already "lost" how to use condoms, and at the same time teach religion. posted by mymla |
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Tiefling: Conservative intolerance, combined with the economical difficulties of raising a child alone, are what promote abortions. These things can only "promote" abortions among those who engage in sex outside the bonds of marriage. Sex should be saved until marriage, even if only to ensure that the possibility of having a child is accounted for. Tiefling: Teens will have sex, regardless as to whether or not they're taught about sex. Christians feel that by repressing teens and not teaching them about sex, that teens will not have sex. However, it only produces uneducated teenagers who engage in unprotected sex. This a very common, incorrect belief that secularists hold. First off, Christians are not repressing, but promoting REAL education on sexual matters. Along with the explanations and discussions of dangers, Christians also teach their children about human values. Also, I was brought up a Christian, and I have not had sex. My siblings were brought up Christian, and have not had sex. All my closest friends have grown up in a Christian environment, and have not had sex. Whoops, looks like everything you just said is DEAD wrong. Tiefling: Haven't people learned the lesson of the Garden of Eden yet? Make something forbidden and it's what humans will pursue above all! Kind of funny that non-Christians have learned that lesson but Christians have not... So, let's make murder legal, then no one will want to murder. mymla: decide what is more important for you, to prevent your daughter from having an abortion or to prevent her from knowing about contraception. Why don't I, instead, teach her about moral values, so that she grows up to be a decent human being? posted by stinkz |
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 stinkz: Why don't I, instead, teach her about moral values, so that she grows up to be a decent human being? As the study (that I cited above) proves, moral education (abstinence programs) is the FASTEST way to increase teenage sex. There are more abortions in Christian US than in secular Canada. There are more abortions in Christians US states than in secular states. Please stop repeating extremists propaganda, stinkz. posted by knn |
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stinkz: These things can only "promote" abortions among those who engage in sex outside the bonds of marriage. Sex should be saved until marriage, even if only to ensure that the possibility of having a child is accounted for. Oh come on, you must know that some save abortions as a method of contraception within marriage. In Russia at least and in poorer countries also. I am afraid even in developed countries it's a way out if there's a child you think you don't want to afford. stinkz: Why don't I, instead, teach her about moral values, so that she grows up to be a decent human being? That's a very, very good idea, I am totally for it. The only problem is as I said before, you need your own Village where your daughter will have no one else but you or people like you around. In normal life even if you teach her the best, there might be a day when she falls in love, and that might happen pretty early and - she might not fall in love with a guy you approve of. As much influence as you will have on her, when it will be about love, she will make her own decisions. Of course most probably with proper background she won't have sex with the first guy she thinks she is in love with, but the older she will get, the more the chances. She will hear talks, see her other friends, have her own wishes. posted by mymla |
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stinkz: So, let's make murder legal, then no one will want to murder. I don't find this argument even close to valid or appropriate. Was it just for the point of bringing in loud scary words? You cannot even compare the attractiveness of murder and sex for an average teenager. People seldom think about murder at this age, except self-murder maybe, but they do think all the time about sex. posted by mymla |
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mymla: You cannot even compare the attractiveness of murder and sex for an average teenager. People seldom think about murder at this age, except self-murder maybe, but they do think all the time about sex. Moreover sex is PRO life and 100% natural. posted by knn |
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 stinkz: This a very common, incorrect belief that secularists hold. First off, Christians are not repressing, but promoting REAL education on sexual matters. Along with the explanations and discussions of dangers, Christians also teach their children about human values. Also, I was brought up a Christian, and I have not had sex. My siblings were brought up Christian, and have not had sex. All my closest friends have grown up in a Christian environment, and have not had sex.
Whoops, looks like everything you just said is DEAD wrong. You seriously believe that because you know 10-20 xians that haven't had sex, that you can then generalize that to what all xian youths/all youths in the world do? Will you tell us what xian denomination you follow? posted by volonteshiva |
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knn: As the study (that I cited above) proves, moral education (abstinence programs) is the FASTEST way to increase teenage sex. As I told you before, you have proved nothing. When the government education system, which teaches the philosophy of hedonism, attempts to teach abstinance, children will naturally disobey. In fact, I'm sure it's true that condom use will prevent a few unwanted pregnancies (though teaching kids about condom use so early promotes the idea that underage sex is OK, and will increase pregnancies, negating the successful benefits of using condoms). However, moral upbringing is a far better answer to abortions and underage sex. If kids are truly educated morally, as my own actions and the actions of my friends have PROVED, decent behaviour is quite possible. knn: Moreover sex is PRO life and 100% natural. Teenage sex, seeing that teens aren't ready to rear children, is very much pro-death. knn: There are more abortions in Christians US states than in secular states. I'm the one reading extremist propaganda? Please. posted by stinkz |
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mymla: I am afraid even in developed countries it's a way out if there's a child you think you don't want to afford. It's surprising that people are opposed to the idea of killing children, or perhaps even the cannibalism of young children, in a time of financial crisis. Wouldn't that be a similar "way out," if you can no longer afford to raise your child? mymla: The only problem is as I said before, you need your own Village where your daughter will have no one else but you or people like you around This is not true. I have not grown up in a "village." I grew up in an inner city, and have been exposed to all kinds of immorality, but I was disciplined and reared morally. Moral upbringing works. posted by stinkz |
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The time now is 12 February 2012, 20:55 php B.B. |