»Can non-Christians go to heaven?«
|
|||
 If you don't know anything about Jesus can you go to heaven? Can Buddhists go to Christian heaven? posted by knn |
|||
|
|||
| in-my-opinion.orgReligion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolvesReligious & Philosophical TopicsCan non-Christians go to heaven? |
|
|||
 There are many non-christian belief systems encompass the idea of heaven - Judeism and Islam for example. Or are you looking at this from a purely Christian perspective? In which case, no. Christianity is not known for it's tolerance in this area. 
You might just as well ask, Do dog's go to heaven? Particularly loyal, faithful, loving dogs that save their masters lives and save children from burning buildings.  posted by Marl64 |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote: Or are you looking at this from a purely Christian perspective Yes. I wanna know the pope's opinion so to speak: Could someone who even never heard of Jesus go to heaven? In other words: Is it necessary to Christianize the whole planet to save the poor souls, who never held a bible in their hands? posted by knn |
|||
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
I imagine the pope's thoughts would be along the lines of "is it time for my nap yet?"
My understanding is that the way to heaven is "through Jesus Christ our Lord" and so according to this beleif system turning up at the pearly gates and responding "Jesus Who?" wouldn't do you a lot of favours. But the question is much deeper than that. Is it enough to follow the "right path" and share the same morality as the christian belief system to get to heaven? Or do you have to unconditionally accept the Jesus is your Lord? I think Christianity would say "yes", however based on the common portrayal of Jesus, he would say "No" And what about a deaf dumb and blind kid, would he have a chance once he's finished playing pinball? After all he can't hear or see the word of God. (Ok there's brail, but suppose he didn't have this either) posted by Marl64 |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
 Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church , but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation . I guess eternal salvation means they are allowed to heaven  Looks like if you know that the Church exists but don't follow and don't believe in Him, you have no chances, however good and holy you behave.
posted by mymla |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
 Inclusivism (Orthodox, Roman Catholic, some protestants) - other religions are incomplete but may have aspects of the truth. Getting to heaven will be harder for non-Christians. The Pope and the Dalai Lama get along because they are both inclusivists. Pluralism (Quakers? Generally more liberal Christians) - all religions are equally capable of providing salvation since they only differ due to differences in culture. Pluralism claims that all religions are basically saying the same thing in different ways. Exclusivism (some protestant denominations) - Only Christianity can provide salvation (some would even go as far as to call other religions 'satanic') posted by fatpie42 |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
 I've thought about this for a while... Christianty states Jesus is the only way into heaven. OK so what of the people in tribes deep in the jungles of Africa who are unable to hear about this or are never subjected to the material? Do they not get to go to heaven? Is this fair to them if Jesus is the only way? posted by The ONEder Man |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
 The ONEder Man: Christianty states Jesus is the only way into heaven.
OK so what of the people in tribes deep in the jungles of Africa who are unable to hear about this or are never subjected to the material? Although this sounds strange at first, this question is related to the idea of reincarnation. Because the problem is even multiplied if you believe that you have lived hundreds of times before thus you make it even MORE possible to have not heard about Jesus in past lives, say 100'000 years ago. Thus I pasted the posts below from another thread: "How reincarnation weakens Christianity" IMO → Reincarnation does not conflict with Christianity If you live millions of lives then Jesus has practically no value. If you you live only a few lives (or only 1) then Jesus has a value, but ONLY TO THOSE who get to know him in this 1 life. Thus the less lives you live the less fair god's rescue plan is (because your chance is less to know the bible). But the more lives you have the less Jesus plays a role anyway (because in 99% of all lives you won't hear about the bible anyway). posted by knn |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Look, I was just saying that you were presuming reincarnation HAS to happen all the time. I don't think even Indians believe that. Now look at it this way. Someone dies. They are resurrected again and again and again until the end of time. Then God resurrects them in the new 'spiritual bodyTM' (as described by St.PaulTM). Now they either go to hell or heaven depending on their acceptance of Christ and, possibly, whether or not their actions confirm such belief. Or the other option, there is no resurrection. They die. They come back to life in the spiritual bodyTM. Where is the conflict, Knn? posted by fatpie42 |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
 fatpie42: Where is the conflict, Knn? The conflict is this: There is no Jesus that could be accepted if you are a deaf-blind African tribe member or if you lived 10'000 years ago or on other planets. If you lived 1'000'000 lives then you surely would have lived 99% without even knowing that there will be/was a guy called "Jesus". Thus this weakens the idea of "Jesus as the center of all salvation". It makes the idea "creep in" that living life after life is NOT about Jesus, not AROUND Jesus and not TOWARDS Jesus. It's not Christian. posted by knn |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
If you lived 99 lives beforehand where you were unable to receive Christ surely that's a reason why it would make more sense in a Christian framework for you to have more lives, not an objection. posted by fatpie42 |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
fatpie42: If you lived 99 lives beforehand where you were unable to receive Christ surely that's a reason why it would make more sense in a Christian framework for you to have more lives, not an objection. Will it make you a worse person, if you are born next life into an Asian body, having to work on a rice field and die with 17? No? Then what is the bible for? In 99% of your lives you won't even hear about it. The importance of Jesus (not the importance of god) is rendered to 0 if you believe in reincarnation. posted by knn |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
So Jesus meant nothing to anybody until he arrived? Surely no one knew about Christ until he actually came? You're talking out of your backside Knn. Reincarnation would allow people to know Christ and share fully in his message of salvation who might never have heard it otherwise. -------- Personal note------------------ However, as an inclusivist I don't think you have to hear the name Jesus Christ to share in his salvation and I also think the effects of Christ's resurrection affected those both before and after the event. No doubt you would think that this denies the importance of the Bible too, eh knn? But this is irrelevant to the point in question... posted by fatpie42 |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
fatpie42: No doubt you would think that this denies the importance of the Bible too, eh knn? But this is irrelevant to the point in question... What you describe is a major problem of Christianity. It's the question whether a baby that dies somewhere in Africa can go to heaven. A related problem is: Can an adult who never heard about god go to heaven? A related problem is: Can a mentally ill person go to heaven? And in fact there are Christian brands that answer "No" and therefore assume, that "spreading the word" is the most important thing because otherwise the "deaf souls" are lost. Jesus said "Noone can reach the Father except through me". Thus this is basically an unsolved problem of Christianity, it weakens the importance of the bible (as you can see by statements such as "Oh, well, I don't think you have to go to church. It's merely important that you are a good man"), and reincarnation would weaken the bible even more. "never heard" "to heaven" ♣ posted by knn |
|||
|
|||
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 Next
Goto page
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 Next
 Register Log in |
The time now is 23 May 2012, 20:54 php B.B. |