»Is homosexuality immoral?«
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 knn: Let me also throw in that pedophiles and Christians have a lot in common knn: Thus yet again we find that Christianity ATTRACTS perverts There you go again, knn. You never miss a chance to bash Christianity by telling Christians what they believe, even when it has no bearing on the argument. knn: Just think about the recent cases of pedophile priests. Just to set the record straight, I do not agree with the whole clergical system that Roman Catholicism holds to. It is one of the many pagan practices that were absorbed into Christianity during it's politicization in Rome. However, even despite this fact, your point about the priests holds no water. Priests are in a position where it would be easy to get away with pedophilia, so the corrupt nature of man is the cause. knn: are a mere signs that Christians are talking about THEIR OWN "inner world" and the fear they could "become like that any moment". Christians do not have any delusions about being "better than" another person, like non-Christians do. So, yes, they do realize that without the grace of God (which shows them the error of immoral ways) they could quite possibly fall into many temptations. You may feel that you are "better" than people who commit immoral acts. But I ask you, if you grew up in their environment, and with their teaching, what would prevent you from doing the same thing? Innate goodness? Hardly. So yes, in a way, we are all supressed perverts. Because, without morality, we would be savages. knn: perverted behaviour can be found as "circumcision" (in Judaism) Wait a minute, circumcision is perverted now? Were you circumcised, knn? I think circumcision is a perfect example of what I have said in the past. The Jews performed circumcisions, which are now performed on most babies at birth. The perversion of Christianity, which is Islam, practices a perverse, yet related action. posted by stinkz |
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| in-my-opinion.orgReligion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolvesReligious & Philosophical TopicsIs homosexuality immoral? |
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 stinkz: I think circumcision is a perfect example of what I have said in the past. The Jews performed circumcisions, which are now performed on most babies at birth. The perversion of Christianity, which is Islam, practices a perverse, yet related action. Most babies are circumsized? Yes, in the US, the most Christian of of all countries. stinkz: Wait a minute, circumcision is perverted now? Were you circumcised, knn? Of course it is perverted to cut off parts of a babie's penis. Thousands of babies die because of circumcision which has no real scientific base, only scientific explanations. posted by knn |
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stinkz: There you go again, knn. You never miss a chance to bash Christianity by telling Christians what they believe, even when it has no bearing on the argument. Look, we are in a thread where you want to prove that homosexuality is immoral. My counter-argument is that a lot of Christians are perverted (or have to sexually suppress themselves) thus they run around shouting "immoral, immoral" because it's IMMORAL FOR THEM. I am proven by the past (Christians cutting off testicles, burning witches) and the present (cutting off clitoris and labia) how perverted the bible religions are. You are proven by nothing. There is no single proof that homosexuality is immoral EXCEPT citing the bible that mentions that it is. In other words: So far no proof that homosexuality is immoral, but plenty of proof that many Christians are immoral and perverted. Are you a Christian, stinkz? posted by knn |
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knn: Thousands of babies die because of circumcision Oh brother. I'm not going to debate you over circumcision. I'm sure you have an arsenal of invalid websites that you are ready to fire at me. Perhaps when I am finished with medical school, I can tell you all the reasons that circumcisions are performed on infants here in America. posted by stinkz |
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stinkz: I can tell you all the reasons that circumcisions are performed on infants here in America. I know all the reasons. But just the fact alone that other countries don't do it is proof enough that it's not needed. Thus the fact remains: It HAS something to do with Christian/Jewish/religious traditions. The US _is_ Christian thus you can expect cutting off parts of the penis is such a country. Thus it's not offtopic. stinkz: I'm not going to debate you over circumcision. You hardly debate over ANYTHING I say. Or anyone else for that matter. posted by knn |
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knn: In other words: So far no proof that homosexuality is immoral, but plenty of proof that many Christians are immoral and perverted. Are you a Christian, stinkz? Let me also add one more thing: Practically the only source for "homosex = immoral" in the New Testament stems from whom? St. Paul, who was a murderer (of children and women). There you have it, yet again, the most perverted of all shout the loudest. posted by knn |
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 volonteshiva: I was not taught this all my life. I was taught the contrary like you. I have formed my own opinions since then and do not believe it's a choice. Me too. (Crap, sangu will freak if she finds out.) stinkz: There you go again, knn. You never miss a chance to bash Christianity by telling Christians what they believe, even when it has no bearing on the argument. YOU never miss a chance to avoid the arguments presented by telling them that there is no 'Reason' in their responses. posted by nocturnal_anonymous |
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nocturnal_anonymous: It is a choice to start having the mentality to seek after [and engage with] the same sex for sexual desires. It is not a choice to start having the physical attractions and reactions to a member of the same sex. IMO → Will there be homosexuals in the future? I wrote that in my original post...some of the wording is a bit off, but this part is okay. Is it really the gay person's fault that he is gay? Even if he does choose to engage in this desire, I don't see how this is "immoral." Your repeated "try to find a gay person who is not sexually abstinent" isn't helping with your Reasoning either, stinkz. I see no relevance to the topic whatsoever. And don't you dare tell me to read the whole thread, I already did (and it took me A HECK of a long time). posted by nocturnal_anonymous |
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 The fact remains that all Stinkz arguments outside of: "It's what the Bible says" are complete unsubstantiated BS which he has no experience to back up. Stinkz may have evidence, but he doesn't have the knowledge needed to rationally understand the evidence. All he's got is what has been fed to him by Christian anti-gay propaganda. Paedophiles have an urge to rape children. Raping children is immoral. Homosexuals are attracted to men rather than women. What's so immoral about two men having a consensual loving sexual relationship? Homesexuals can't be cured and neither can paedophiles. They have these sexual urges and there's nothing that can be done about it. The difference is that giving into homosexual urges doesn't have to be wrong, but giving into paedophilic urges IS wrong. So now that I've made it clear that not accepting paedophiles does not mean I have to dismiss homosexuals, can we get back to the point? Do you KNOW any homosexuals Stinkz? YES or NO? posted by fatpie42 |
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 fatpie42: The difference is that giving into homosexual urges doesn't have to be wrong, but giving into paedophilic urges IS wrong. But I have to agree with stinkz here. If indeed homosexuality is based on "giving in to personal perversion" then homosexuality and pedophilia have the same despicable source: The unwillingness to supress one's own perversions. It is true that pedophilia (attraction to humans below 12 years) could be said to be more immoral than homosexuality (because it involves rape) but the source can be nevertheless the same: The sick love for one's own perversions. I want to repeat what I have written in my post above: Most pedophiles ARE homosexual. Thus there may indeed be a connection between these two, and thus indeed they both may be perversions. Let me also add 1 more important thing: The reason why this society believes that homosexuality is normal may be based on medical propaganda: "What we cannot treat must therefore be normal". (It's actually a proof how the Christian religion succumbed, because people listen to medical propaganda more than to religioius propaganda). posted by knn |
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knn: fatpie42: The difference is that giving into homosexual urges doesn't have to be wrong, but giving into paedophilic urges IS wrong. But I have to agree with stinkz here. If indeed homosexuality is based on "giving in to personal perversion" then homosexuality and pedophilia have the same despicable source: The unwillingness to supress one's own perversions. It is true that pedophilia (attraction to humans below 12 years) could be said to be more immoral than homosexuality (because it involves rape) but the source can be nevertheless the same: The sick love for one's own perversions. Well, as you said before knn, that would be an unhelpful line of argument for Stinkz. It simply leads to the question, what makes heterosexuality NOT perverted? Why shouldn't ALL sexuality be suppressed? I at least had a reason. Paedophilia should be suppressed because it is an urge towards rape without exception. Homosexuality is not anymore an urge towards rape than heterosexuality is. Here is have recognised that what we are actually upset with is rape and not sexual feelings. Stinkz view is nowhere near as clear (unless you say "this is what the Bible says" which is not what I would call rational even if Stinkz would). knn: I want to repeat what I have written in my post above: Most pedophiles ARE homosexual. Thus there may indeed be a connection between these two, and thus indeed they both may be perversions.
Let me also add 1 more important thing: The reason why this society believes that homosexuality is normal may be based on medical propaganda: "What we cannot treat must therefore be normal". (It's actually a proof how the Christian religion succumbed, because people listen to medical propaganda more than to religioius propaganda). Like I said, NEITHER homosexuality NOR Paedophilia can be CURED. People have all sorts of urges and we wouldn't claim to be able to influence most of them. We also wouldn't say it was wrong for us to pursue most urges. The question for Stinkz is this: 'What is immoral about homosexuality?' posted by fatpie42 |
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fatpie42: Like I said, NEITHER homosexuality NOR Paedophilia can be CURED. Says who? Oh, the homosexuals and the doctors. OK. posted by knn |
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knn: There is no single proof that homosexuality is immoral EXCEPT citing the bible that mentions that it is. Many historical, moral writings forbid homosexuality, including those of Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism. fatpie42: Paedophilia should be suppressed because it is an urge towards rape without exception. Here you fall back once again on your half-morality, given to you by Neitzche or whomever you follow. I'm sorry, but aggression against another human being is not the entirety of morality. You no doubt love Neitzche philosophy because it pushes for a moral system you have grown up on: the law. However, our government systems' laws have been based on a higher all-encompassing moral law. Sadly, most people in our society do not believe in the higher moral law anymore, and merely follow the worldly law for their own personal benefit. I don't see how this makes a person any better than Thrasymachus. posted by stinkz |
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Stinkz, you are just showing how limited your knowledge of Nietzsche is. My views expressed here have NOTHING to do with Nietzsche (who often criticises the workings of the law). Do you KNOW any homosexuals? Yes or No? It is a SIMPLE question. Why do you shun away from just answering me? (or would that be too irrational?) Oh and the Jewish scripture that condemns homosexuality is the reason why Christian and Islamic scripture condemns homosexuality. You may as well call it "Abrahamic" scripture and that makes it only 1 piece of ancient writing and not 3. If you can reference the Hindu text that condemns homosexuality I would be impressed. Can you do that? posted by fatpie42 |
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fatpie42: Do you KNOW any homosexuals? Yes or No? It is a SIMPLE question. Why do you shun away from just answering me? (or would that be too irrational?) But how would that change anything? Do YOU know any pedophiliacs? posted by knn |
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