»Women do not really have equal status to men yet...«
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 nocturnal_anonymous: (Dang you, allone, you have me so confused...I don't know where my post is going either. Great.) hehe, sorry NA (and everyone else who has read this thread) that happens to me when its late, i tend to lose focus and just ramble on...and plus i have had problems sleeping lately so i have been taking these prescribtion sleeping pills that really make kinda crazy if i don't go to bed right after taking them. cant really say much right now, but in that case that you gave...i totally agree with you. posted by allone |
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| in-my-opinion.orgMiscAnything that doesn't fit in any other categoryWomen do not really have equal status to men yet... |
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 hey thanks allone for pointing out different views. 
posted by sangu |
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sangu: the guys are assumed to take on that bravery masculine role. save the women and kids. they can't do that job. of course, if a woman wants to go and rescue them, go ahead. but if only a man and a woman were standing there (on neutral ground), the male would feel more obligated to do it.
why women and kids first? once again, weaker gender. plus, women are the ones that reproduce. gotta save the planet's population. it's kind of like, let the weak go, hopefully the strong can fend for themselves. very generalized. also correlates with tradition-ish, it's always been done. how do you know a man would feel more obligated? they could very possibly be just as sacerd as the woman, but because society tells them that they must be the brave ones they automatically will be? ...i just wanted to say about those statements...those are the generalizing statements that people are trying to get away from in cases like these. women want to be treated the same as men, that means that you don't see "woman" and "man" but you see people instead, no sex. the women that say, oh i don't get paid as much at the job, the man makes more...they can be answered with the same type of response that you gave..."well that's how its always been. why not just stay at home and do woman things because that's how it should be because you are weaker and cant cut it out here..." and so on. it also the same as saying, "well, if a man and woman were standing on neutral ground, the woman would feel more obligated to worry about her hair and nails and make up instead of do something to rescue people" but you are right, its because of the traditional mindset that "man is stronger and woman is weaker" you see? the women that want the equal rights and treatment are trying to do away with the whole "traditional" mindset, because that is the mindset that holds them back. but its not fair to just do away with it for one gender and then keep stereotyping the other because "that's how its always been". the women that are strong into equal rights will be the first, before the man, to jump up and try to rescue someone from a burning building...because they don't see themselves as "weak and submissive" but as a human, and anyone is capable of doing anything, no matter what sex they are. posted by allone |
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of course they are generalizations. i should've mention that there are exceptions, as in every case. but that's my point of view. you've also brought up other points, which is good. we're all sharing here. i'm not really against anyone. allone: they can be answered with the same type of response that you gave they can. but society has progressed, so some things mostly change, like that job example. Yet some customs (opening door) has stayed pretty much in the same place. allone: you see? the women that want the equal rights and treatment are trying to do away with the whole "traditional" mindset, because that is the mindset that holds them back. you're right. allone: how do you know a man would feel more obligated? they could very possibly be just as sacerd as the woman, but because society tells them that they must be the brave ones they automatically will be? maybe he feels he's obligated because society tells him so? it's not necesarily an obligation of the conscience. these are all primarily conjectures, i don't really know what goes in a man's head. 
posted by sangu |
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sangu: maybe he feels he's obligated because society tells him so? it's not necesarily an obligation of the conscience. i think that you are on the right path there...and if a man did not do these things, he would be considered "less manly" sangu: these are all primarily conjectures, i don't really know what goes in a man's head. i don't either. i don't know what goes on in the next mans head, i am just one of over several million men in the world who have all gone through and experienced different events in their life that have shaped them into who they are...i may have a close idea of what may be going on or what his motivations may be, because i too am a man, but i would never know exactly what is going on or even why. different people do things for different reasons. that's what i hate about my girlfriends sociology classes, and her teachers, they tell her that certain people do things because of this and because of that, and they present them as facts...i have to ask her all the time...did the author of that book, or your teacher, go around and interview every single man on earth to know exactly why all men do this or that? no they didn't...again, different people do things for different reasons. and i don't know what goes on in a womans head... BUT i think we should rather say...i don't know what goes on in anyones head... ...other than your own...its that whole..."not seeing a gender" thing again (although if you ever seek psychiatric advise, you may find that you actually don't know what goes on in your head...according to them, but that's another topic) posted by allone |
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 Quote: Why do women have to wear bras. that's not such a bad constraint, I mean why do men have to wear underwear? posted by Kupov |
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 sangu: as for holding the door open, i think it's a tradition that guys follow because well, it seems courteous, etc. but the question is how did it even start. "back in the day", you know, it was all women=inferior, they are trophy wives, feeble, feminine, etc. so that feeling may have translated to that act. so nowadays, it's mostly just doing it because that's what guys do, and it's courteous. OK, I'm gonna take a guess at this one, just to try and get this "inferior" mood out of it. It's a very "English Gentleman" thing, opening doors, so lets look at it from that point of view. Victorian England - though it's actually much older, but lets stick to what most people can imagine (cue sherlock holmes music) A couple travel to the theatre by carriage. He gets out, strolls 'round the other side and opens the door for the lady. Not because she is "inferior", but rather because her hands are full holding those mountainous layers of pettycoat in place so she can move here legs enough to get out. Ok, just an idea. sangu: why do guys rescue people in burning buildings? Higher average physical strength and a body better designed for carrying. It's not sexism, it's genetic fact. Broad shoulders are not something men have "to get one over on women", it's just something men have. Not all men, but on average... sangu: it kind of relates to the sinking ship. the guys are assumed to take on that bravery masculine role. save the women and kids... Nope sangu: why women and kids first? once again, weaker gender. plus, women are the ones that reproduce. gotta save the planet's population. it's kind of like, let the weak go, hopefully the strong can fend for themselves. very generalized. also correlates with tradition-ish, it's always been done. Yeah, you're kinda on the right lines. It's based on maximising population based on survivors going back to colony ships. Children are the future of a colony. The Women first part is basic maths. If four women survive and one man, we have enough for four pregnancies. If four men survive and one Women, we only get one. A new colony needs to maximise it's expansion. Cold hard clinical facts sure - but Not sexism. sangu: ...i suppose its to make sure the man does his part. there are too many single mothers out there. the girl did have to go through the pregnancy (painful stuff), and the least a guy could do is to help pay if he's going to ditch her. It's not always as black and white as that. One of the alarming factors of "Modern Britian" is that there are growing numbers of young single girls, intentionally getting pregnant to get state aid. They are often the ones using and dumping, as being "alone and helpless with a child" gets them to the front of the housing queue, gets them free furniture and (the latest idea) a government (ie tax payers) provided trust fund for the kid 
She can then spend her hard earned dole money on fags and lotto tickets and the latest in burbery shell suits 
posted by Marl64 |
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Marl64: It's a very "English Gentleman" thing, opening doors, so lets look at it from that point of view.
Victorian England - though it's actually much older, but lets stick to what most people can imagine (cue sherlock holmes music) Not because she is "inferior", but rather because her hands are full holding those mountainous layers of pettycoat in place so she can move here legs enough to get out. thank you! i had another "discussion" last night with my girlfriend. she believes that the ONLY reason men hold doors open for women is because that society has taught men (and her teachers, all female, have taught her) that they are stronger and therefore need to "take care" of the frail and weak woman. there is a guy that she totally hates on her campus. she doesnt know his name and has only seen him once. she was going into a building and a couple was following behind her, she (my girlfriend) held open the door for the two to go through, the girl went in, the guy reached over my girlfriend to hold the door for her. she got soo pissed about that, saying that he thinks that women are weak and if she was a boy he would not have done that blah blah blah...i asked her if she followed him around to see if he did that to everyone, if he opened the doors for anyone else..she didn't...anyway, had to tell her that my own father does that to ME even, and he has done it for her several times. "but hes different" is her answer. she cant seem to get it in her head that some guys may just simply open doors for women because its POLITE. i never hold open the doors for her anymore, i open them, make it look like im going to let her through, then walk through and let the door shut behind me!  (of course im just kidding, but when she gives that attitude, i certainly do not open doors for her...i do what i just said i do)Marl64: One of the alarming factors of "Modern Britian" is that there are growing numbers of young single girls, intentionally getting pregnant to get state aid.
They are often the ones using and dumping, as being "alone and helpless with a child" gets them to the front of the housing queue, gets them free furniture and (the latest idea) a government (ie tax payers) provided trust fund for the kid
She can then spend her hard earned dole money on fags and lotto tickets and the latest in burbery shell suits this happens in the states too, although we have a different type of welfare, there are people who abuse it. this is another HUGE society problem. another one that my girlfriend has become a crusader for and wants me to stop everything that i am doing to focus on solving. her answer to the fact that there are people who abuse welfare programs...there are only very very few people who actually do that, and they do not get away with it for long...her books and teachers told her so. (but welfare is another topic) posted by allone |
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oh by the way im not sexist. i realized i kinda came across that way. i was just trying to think of why this stuff happened. Marl64: Not because she is "inferior", but rather because her hands are full holding those mountainous layers of pettycoat in place so she can move here legs enough to get out. oh yeah, good point. Marl64: It's not always as black and white as that. true, i was just pointing out what i knew of the situation. Marl64: Higher average physical strength and a body better designed for carrying. It's not sexism, it's genetic fact. i think it still relates to the "men are stronger" concept. posted by sangu |
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 I still don't understand why noc thinks wearing bras and shaving legs is so constraining. 1.Why do men have to work out (oh to be appealing to women? give me a break, its not like being physically fit makes us feel better and its not like we enjoy it) 2.Bras are MEANT for back support, if women use them to attract men how are we to blame? 3.Why do men have to wear clean clothes? oh to appear "attractive" to women? pffffft 4.Why do we have to shower? I mean come on, how contstraining 5.Why are men supposed to pay for dates? that should be equal. posted by Kupov |
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 Kupov: 5.Why are men supposed to pay for dates? that should be equal. B/c i've been dating for more then 10 years & paying's been always equal on my dates 
posted by a |
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a: Kupov: 5.Why are men supposed to pay for dates? that should be equal. B/c i've been dating for more then 10 years & paying's been always equal on my dates Yeah but you live in Europe, don't you? My impression from my time in Europe was women are more equal to men there than in the US. All of my dates have been paid for by me; I think if I suggested to an American girl that she pay for her half of the meal or tickets or whatever she would walk out on me. Wait, there was one time when a girl asked me out to a movie (all the other times I asked them out) and I didn't even know if it was a date so I didn't offer to pay. Then later I found out it was a date. But I got off easy then because when I see her now I pretend I don't know it was a date. So she thinks I think it wasn't a date. Which it was.
posted by holy_of_holies |
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holy_of_holies: I think if I suggested to an American girl that she pay for her half of the meal or tickets or whatever she would walk out on me. I don't think all American girls are like that at all. Maybe you just haven't met an emancipated one yet
posted by a |
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a: holy_of_holies: I think if I suggested to an American girl that she pay for her half of the meal or tickets or whatever she would walk out on me. I don't think all American girls are like that at all. Maybe you just haven't met an emancipated one yet No I've met those girls, but they usually aren't interested in guys in general, if you catch my meaning. [CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE] [CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE] posted by holy_of_holies |
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holy_of_holies: No I've met those girls, but they usually aren't interested in guys in general, if you catch my meaning. Look, "emancipated" doesn't equal "lesbian" in my dictionary...does it equal in yours? I'm talking about new fashioned, intelligent, open minded American women when i say emancipated, like for example: ›Oprah Winfrey‹ ›Hillary Clinton‹ ›Condoleezza Rice‹ ›Madonna‹ , don't forget that she's originally American posted by a |
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