»Women do not really have equal status to men yet...«
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 allone: i open a door for her i get something like, "what? do you think i CANT open a door for myself! that im soo weak and frail that i NEED someone to open the door for me, a MAN! i can take care of myself!" Wow, that is impressive 
Maybe you guys should move to Russia. There it will be a very long time till such severe feminism settles, so you can enjoy being expected to open doors, pay at dates, give flowers and treat women as women and get bashed for not doing so. Are you absolutely sure though that you will like that for a long time? I like this thread very much. Seems like instead of "oh poor us girls" it turned into "oh poor us guys" Sweet.
As far as main points of these thread are concerned, I also think that whatever you do, it's a matter of your own choice. You can complaint that society or girlfriend or boyfriend forces you to do so, but still you yourself chose to comply and do whatever you are expected to do. I agree that men and women are not equal and never will be. What can you do if women are just supposed to be weaker? Of course there are exceptions, but those exceptions are as a rule capable of defending themselves and of getting what they want in spite of the sexism etc. Unequal rights at work are a more serious point than let's say shaving legs, but even here I must say I would chose the men's or employees point of view and prefer to promote a woman rather than a man if there's a possibility she can have a child. Ok, there are cases where probably I would like to have more equal attitude, or at least less prejudice. The other side of no-feminism in Russia is that a woman working in a "usually men" field has to usually put much more effort into proving that she is efficient and professional. So I would say in many cases a woman has to be more qualified than a man at the same post. the ONEder Man: Dare i come out with the opinion of men have to do MORE to please women?
The things a woman has to do are merely physical in nature, a man has to have the total package. I would agree with that. When it comes to pleasing the opposite sex, men generally have a harder time I think. Besides being handsome as the magazines etc require, which is also required from women, they usually have to be if not rich than at least capable of supporting a family, at least when it comes to a serious relationship. A woman just has to be beautiful, or at least pretty, and agreeable and bring that into relationship, whereas a man has to be good-looking PLUS be a good breadwinner. I would collapse if that would be expected of me, really. posted by mymla |
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| in-my-opinion.orgMiscAnything that doesn't fit in any other categoryWomen do not really have equal status to men yet... |
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 Nico: Can you remember if it was just "touching the breasts" or groping specifically? If remember correctly it was a stranger suddenly starting to touch the breasts of a female pedestrian. That would qualify as groping in my view. They reported it in TV because it was such a "scnadalous court decision" posted by knn |
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 Nico: I do think one thing is silly though: there is more focus recently on trying to get it allowable for women to go topless than there is on getting them equal pay from many feminists. haha, its soo true. i had a very long 'discussion' with my girlfriend on this very subject! oh, its "topfree" not topless. i don't understand how you do not want women tobe made into property, or matericalized as sexual objects...yet you want to walk around without a shirt.  i tell her that she needs to see the other side, why women SHOULD keep their shirts on, so she sent me to the FAQ section of the TERA website: its pretty funny 5) Aren't women's breasts sexual?
It's up to women to decide when and where they are or aren't sexual. Everyone can respect a woman's or man's decision to lie on a beach and not be bothered, whether she or he has a top on or not. It is unconscionable to restrict women because men have some opinion about them or their breasts. Men aren't required to wear tops because women find their uncovered chests sexual, so the reverse should not be required either. um, really? so because a woman decides she doesnt want her breasts to be seen as sexual, then men will not find them sexual? i could go on for hours on this part alone...i just don't feel like it, and im at work. but check that website out, its very informative...about womens fight to be topfree. posted by allone |
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I'm a little dubious of the law ever accepting it to be a case-by-case "chosen by the individual" basis. That would be... exceptionally libertarian. posted by Nico |
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 You have a point about the shaving, but women with big boobs kinda want bras for the support anyways, don't they? Then again those of us with small boobs don't necessarily have to wear them as well.. whatever. But anyways, not that I'm not in support of women's rights and all that, but well.. it's all about sexuality, and honestly, I don't see how anyone could make men just all the sudden change their opinions about what is/isn't beautiful in a woman. I think the opinions of the opposite sex always have/always will dictate what is/isn't beautiful in the other. Also, even if women currently have to do more work when it comes to appearance, men are slowly beginning to have to do some of these things too. Very slowly. Like in all the mags, the muscular, shirtless guys have like... zero chest hair, right? I mean.. yeah. Women are also controlling what looks good/bad in a man too. I think it goes both ways. posted by Nianza |
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Nianza: it's all about sexuality, and honestly, I don't see how anyone could make men just all the sudden change their opinions about what is/isn't beautiful in a woman. I think the opinions of the opposite sex always have/always will dictate what is/isn't beautiful in the other. I wonder who sets the fashion/preferences for what is beautiful and what is not. I have an impression that fashions in clothes, for example, are set by either female couturier, or gay couturier. Then it doesn't look like what women should wear is guided by men point of view. I might know too little guys, but a lot of them would prefer a woman with a body which has something to hold on to 
I even read somewhere some time (seems to be a reliable source of information ) that a lot of men who prefer skinny, childish-looking women have been opressed by their mothers or are not self-confident now. Hmm...
Any way, I would settle for something that is healthy (suggesting good reproductive health for example) as being the standard for beautiful. It obviously is not... Maybe, it's the hidden gay influence who have no idea about procreation? posted by mymla |
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Nico: I do think one thing is silly though: there is more focus recently on trying to get it allowable for women to go topless Especially in subways 
posted by knn |
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Health should be beauty!  posted by Nianza |
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Nianza: Also, even if women currently have to do more work when it comes to appearance, men are slowly beginning to have to do some of these things too. Very slowly. Hehe, when I think about men making themselves look beautiful, the first thing that comes to mind is late Romans, before downfall, and those guys were _gay_. Actually, I like men who obviously look after themselves, but don't overdo it. Guys who (try to) look like models make me very suspicious, and I certainly wouldn't like to date a guy who will check every new season's favourite colours and carry around a mirror to check whether his beautifully gelled hair are still in the perfect position. 
I can understand when a woman puts too much importance to the way she looks - she is a woman, you just cannot help it - but if it's a guy... posted by mymla |
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mymla: Any way, I would settle for something that is healthy (suggesting good reproductive health for example) as being the standard for beautiful. It obviously is not... Why not? Healthy teeth, skin tone... Actually being skinny _is_ a sign of health since it shows that the food one eats is so vitamine-rich, that you don't need to eat much. Well, whatever. posted by knn |
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 allone: man, i hate that one! (when my girlfriend gets in one of her "moods") and i open a door for her i get something like, "what? do you think i CANT open a door for myself! that im soo weak and frail that i NEED someone to open the door for me, a MAN! i can take care of myself!" Yep. I dated a girl like this...kind of. We went to a restaurant and I held the door for her, to which she laid into me w/the typical feminist mantra. When she finished her diatribe, I calmly closed the door, flagged down a cab, and said "good-night." Date ended before we even had dinner.
I am all for women's rights, there's a lot of things that men have done to hurt the advancement of women. But women that pull this type of crap are rediculous. They do this stuff to men for no other reason than to be a BITCH...worst of all, if somebody calls them on it they're either sexist (man) or subservient (woman). What these women fail to realize is that maybe we (guys) are doing it to be nice or are doing it because we care about them...yet, we're to be punished for that belief...ludicrous. posted by GP |
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GP: I am all for women's rights, there's a lot of things that men have done to hurt the advancement of women.
--- What these women fail to realize is that maybe we (guys) are doing it to be nice or are doing it because we care about them...yet, we're to be punished for that belief...ludicrous. oh, me too, don't get me wrong. and yes, that is it. i have held doors open for men too. i have held doors open for total strangers. if we both reach a door at the same time, i will reach out, open it and let the other person (no matter what sex they are) go ahead of me. especially if its an older/ederly or handicapped person. not because i feel that i am stronger or can hold a door open, but because i feel it is polite. no matter what sex you are. posted by allone |
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knn: Actually being skinny _is_ a sign of health since it shows that the food one eats is so vitamine-rich, that you don't need to eat much. There's a difference between being skinny and being slim. The level of skinniness that is promoted by the media is not healthy - IMO. You sure know that below a certain weight-hight ratio women have difficulties concieving and carrying a baby. This is what I mean by reproductively healthy here. posted by mymla |
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I'm a girl and I hold the door open for men and women. It's just a small kindness I like to do. I don't believe that men should be accountable for doing things like that for women, but I also think that if they do do it, for anyone, it shouldn't be accepted as just "something they should do". (Least of all should it be taken as patronizing..) If men and women are to be equal, we shouldn't have all these "rules" about what a man needs to do to be polite to a woman. Now, I'm not saying people should just all disregard these little courtesies. But somehow things are better appreciated if no one HAS to do them. posted by Nianza |
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 I appreciate doors held for me, and I'll hold em for anyone, male or female. As for going out: my boyfriend and I split the bill always *shrug* or work it out if one owes the other. Simple as that. posted by bluewolf |
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