»Please tell something that is absolutely true«
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 What laws of logic? Perhaps you mean something along the lines of: "Matter can only do what matter can do" But you do not know what matter can do, so you are overestimating your own knowledge. What you are saying is: "Matter, as I have seen it, has always acted in this way, so it does so in all times and places." That is inductive reasoning, not logic. posted by fatpie42 |
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| in-my-opinion.orgTechnology, Computers, Science, InternetScience (Assorted topics)Please tell something that is absolutely true |
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 fatpie42: A postitron is not an electron. Positron = antimatter electron Negatron = matter electron "Negatron" is only a seldomly used term. posted by knn |
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Let me state what I have stated at IMO → Is homosexuality immoral?#32472 about relative truths: knn: An absolute truth would be something that is true, no matter what time or space or circumstance.
An absolute truth is true independent on any "ifs".
Thus an electron is not absolutely true. It's only relatively true. For example electrons do not exist when it's very hot (for example short after the big bang). Or to put it more broad: Electrons are not absolutely true, because MATTER is not absolutely true. Matter moves, expands, contracts, changes through time and space. Matter can be destroyed or created (think of an atom bomb). But an absolute truth would never change. Can you name a piece of matter that is always the same, no matter how time or space changes? There is none. What you mean, is not TRUTH, but REALITY (or: relative truth). posted by knn |
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 fatpie: What laws of logic? Ones like "A cannot be both A and non-A at the same time and in the same relationship." posted by stinkz |
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stinkz: If by "different" you mean "contrary to laws of logic" then this statement is utter nonsense. Can you prove that laws of logic are always the same for every universe? Nope. stinkz: Ones like "A cannot be both A and non-A at the same time and in the same relationship." Says who? Maybe this is only valid in universes where time exists. Moreover what is the opposite of "an apple"? Moreover, since you are a Christian then you believe that god an do everything. So could god make an universe where 1+1=3? If yes, then you have disproven yourself. If no, then you believe that god has limits. posted by knn |
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Stinkz is talking about THIS universe. Even so there is no reason why why particles shouldn't act completely differently in the future or in other places. The only way we know the dispositions of various objects is through observation and induction. Just because sugar has always dissolved in water under certain conditions in the past does not mean that in the future it could not act differently under identical conditions. Instead of dissolving in the water the sugar might explode or turn into a white rabbit and this would still be perfectly logical. Put it this way: (1) My friend has always been trustworthy in the past. (2) My friend has been a trustworthy friend of mine for a long period of time. (3) Therefore he will always be trustworthy in the future. A justified argument, but completely invalid. Induction is the same: (1) Sugar has always dissolved in water under these conditions (2) It has been observed dissolving in water under these conditions time and time again on many occaisions. (3) Therefore sugar will always dissolve in water under these conditions. Once again, justified but invalid! I can't be bothered writing out the Turkey example again. i'm sure I've said it before somewhere on this forum. posted by fatpie42 |
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knn: Can you prove that laws of logic are always the same for every universe? Nope. WOW, knn! Think before you speak! Please reread this statement. Then reply and tell me why it is absurd. I really wanna see if you can do this. knn: Moreover, since you are a Christian then you believe that god an do everything. There you go with another vain attempt to tell me what I should believe. Christians do not believe God can do "everything." He can do only that which is consistant with His nature. He cannot contradict Himself. knn: So could god make an universe where 1+1=3? No. God is not nonsense. knn: If yes, then you have disproven yourself. If no, then you believe that god has limits. God does have limits. He cannot create a rock that is too heavy for him to lift. God cannot go against His very nature. All that these types of arguments prove is that God is not nonsensical. posted by stinkz |
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 stinkz: Then reply and tell me why it is absurd. stinkz pulls out his favorite word again. Really stinkz, if you think we're all absurd over here, why do you even read these forums? Why not go troll Christian forums instead? posted by Tiefling |
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Tiefling: Really stinkz, if you think we're all absurd over here, why do you even read these forums? Did I say "you all are absurd?" No. I said that one particular thing he said was absurd. And it was. Thank you ramming your 2 c.ents where it was unwanted. Tiefling: Why not go troll Christian forums instead You continue to attack me, from thread to thread, and add nothing to any argument. I believe THAT is considered trolling. posted by stinkz |
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fatpie42: Stinkz is talking about THIS universe. Yes, but this is a relative truth, not an absolute truth. "I have 3 apples on my table" True? Yes. Relatively. Why relatively? Because this truth will change. posted by knn |
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stinkz: There you go with another vain attempt to tell me what I should believe. Christians do not believe God can do "everything." He can do only that which is consistant with His nature. He cannot contradict Himself. So 1+1=3 is against god own nature? Where does this idea come from? You seem to know a lot about god's nature... posted by knn |
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stinkz: knn: Can you prove that laws of logic are always the same for every universe? Nope. WOW, knn! Think before you speak! Please reread this statement. Then reply and tell me why it is absurd. I really wanna see if you can do this. Yes, I re-read it. And it's still valid. You assume that the logic that you know is valid in each and every universe. In THIS universe it's logical that time runs from past to future. However, you can think up an universe (and god can too), where time runs backwards. All logic is based upon unproven (unprovable) statements (so called axioms), for example "things exists". Logic is only valid within its own parameters. posted by knn |
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stinkz: Did I say "you all are absurd?" No. I said that one particular thing he said was absurd. Well, during your time here at IMO, you have called knn, volonteshiva, The ONEder Man, and me "absurd". This doesn't include your slew of other personal attacks and condescension toward fellow posters, particularly fatpie. So if you think we're absurd here, why don't you go post elsewhere? I'm sure you can find a forum where people aren't absurd. posted by Tiefling |
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knn: Can you prove that laws of logic are always the same for every universe? PROVING requires LOGIC. Your question is meaningless. What if I asked you, "Can you proove to me that proofs are valid?" That would be equally meaningless. knn: You seem to know a lot about god's nature... I most certainly know that He cannot be both God and not God! posted by stinkz |
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Tiefling: Well, during your time here at IMO, you have called knn, volonteshiva, The ONEder Man, and me "absurd". You have said many absurd things. What's your point. Tiefling: why don't you go post elsewhere? I'm sure you can find a forum where people aren't absurd. The only benefit I could see in posting elsewhere other than this forum, would be that I could get rid of this little troll who does nothing but follow me around from thread to thread, constantly criticizing and telling me to leave. Perhaps your plan is working: drive off opposing opinions with constant badgering. posted by stinkz |
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