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»Adolf Hitler vs Jesus Christ: Was Hitler a good Christian?«





Was Hitler a Christian in your personal view?

   
No
52%
 52%  [ 13 ]
Yes
32%
 32%  [ 8 ]
Don't know / Can't decide / God may care, but I don't
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
Number of users, who voted: 25
Number of counted votes: 25




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stinkz:
If I have no right to claim he was not Christian, you have no right to claim that he was

Wrong. He described himself as Christian. That makes it as good as for any other person.

Many people think that Hitler was not a Christian. But let's listen to his own words:
Here are some quotes from Hitler:
• "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
• "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
• "The National Socialist State has not closed a church, nor has it prevented the holding of a religious service, nor has it ever exercised any influence upon the form of a religious service. It has not exercised any pressure upon the doctrine nor on the profession of faith of any of the Confessions"
• "I am absolutely convinced of the great power and the deep significance of the Christian religion, and consequently will not permit any other founders of religion (Religionsstifter). Therefore I have turned against Ludendoriff and separated myself from him; therefore I reject Rosenberg's book. That book is written by a Protestant."
• "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith... Therefore we will maintain the confessional schools in order to train believing people through the schools, but this depends upon having truly believing teachers, not by chance Marxists who do not stand fully by their religious faith, as teachers."
• "A folkish state must therefore begin by raising marriage from the level of a continuous defilement of the race, and give it the consecration of an institution which is called upon to produce images of the Lord"
• "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter... In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might."
• "And we know that were the great German reformer [Martin Luther] with us to-day he would rejoice to be freed from the necessity of his own time and, like Ulrich von Hutten, his last prayer would be not for the Churches of the separate States: it would be of Germany that he would think and of the Evangelical Church of Germany."
• "Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise."
• "Parallel to the training of the body a struggle against the poisoning of the soul must begin. Our whole public life today is like a hothouse for sexual ideas and simulations. Just look at the bill of fare served up in our movies, vaudeville and theaters, and you will hardly be able to deny that this is not the right kind of food, particularly for the youth... Theater, art, literature, cinema, press, posters, and window displays must be cleansed of all manifestations of our rotting world and placed in the service of a moral, political, and cultural idea."
• "We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."


Astonishing words, from Adolf Hitler's mouth. If you didn't know that it was The Fueher, then it could be ANY Christian.

Also think about:
We must not forget that Hitler's own contemporaries, the highest Protestant and Catholic leaders (including Popes and Bishops) thought of Hitler as a Christian. How can one sit here, decades from his history, and judge against Hitler's Christianity, when his own fellow Christians thought of him as a Christian?

Like the Biblical God, Hitler created war and destruction.

Similar to the Biblical laws against marrying outside one's group, the Nazi race laws outlawed Jews from marrying Aryan Germans as outlined in Hitler's private notes. Julius Streicher confessed that the race laws got based on Old Testament laws.

Like the Biblical Jesus, Hitler did not live for peace. He created many divisions among the people.

Like many Christians in the past and today, Hitler aimed to protect the image of the Lord.

Like Christian leaders of the past, Hitler wished to unite the churches. He fought for his beliefs using the Lord as his justification. He created intolerance, divisions, and hatred as have Christians of the past.

Hitler lived as a confessed Christian. He got brought up a Catholic and spoke and prayed as a Christian. He believed that the Bible represented the history of mankind. Nothing in his rhetoric spoke against Christian faith. Although he did have a few Chrisitan enemies, they posed a political danger, not a religious threat.

Hitler allowed the destruction of Jewish synagogues and Temples. But if for one moment you still harbor the thought that Hitler acted against Christ belief, then ask yourself why he never ordered the destruction of Catholic or Protestant churches? Why did he not prevent his Nazis from worshiping in Christian churches, but instead encouraged it? And why did he spend so much time in trying to strengthen and unite the religion into one Christian Reich Church?

Even acknowledging Hitler's most atrocious acts as sinful cannot exclude him from Christianity. Tenets of Christian belief allege that all people sin and only redemtion through faith in Jesus Christ can absolve them.

A Christian, therefore, can never use sin alone, regardless of how horrible or atrocious, as an argument against Hitler. Clearly, Hitler's own words reveal his Christian faith, and Christians must, by their own tenant and upheld by their Bible, not to judge others.

Under all possible conditions then, Hitler lived and acted as a Christian and anyone who does not think so can only redefine Christianity from their own ignorance and denial.


and
Interestingly, most German Christians supported Hitler before and during the war. They felt empathy for him and loved him, sometimes, in messiah-like fashion. (There even exist news reels showing Hitler giving a laying-on-of-hands, Jesus-like, to his admiring German audience.) Although the German citizens may not have desired to kill their enemies themselves, they felt perfectly willing to support others to do the killing for Germany.

Even in the United States today, most Christians support a strong military and (as has been shown in the Gulf wars) will willingly condone the killing of others through "legal" war. Religious leaders such as Jerry Falwell, D. James Kennedy, Billy Graham, et al, preach the need to defend the Christian faith through war if necessary, and will even condone the "unfortunate but sometimes necessary" deaths of innocents.

Please also note that Hitler was not excommunicated until now.


posted by knn

in-my-opinion.org -> Religion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolves -> Religious & Philosophical Topics -> Adolf Hitler vs Jesus Christ: Was Hitler a good Christian?

Nice site



How ironic that your info comes from "nobeliefs.com"

posted by stinkz
  

Maybe they are too blind to see the truth?



stinkz:
How ironic that your info comes from "nobeliefs.com"

It's not ironic but probably typical, that Christians (and other biblical religions) are ashamed of their famous co-believers once the secular world points out how bad they were.

It is the duty of the secular world to present the mirror.

Probably the same will happen with USAma Bin Laden.


posted by knn
  

secularism causes immorality, nothing more...



knn:
probably typical, that Christians (and other biblical religions) are ashamed of their famous co-believers

And this has anything to do with the fact that your information comes, not from a news or unbiased website, but from an obviously anti-religious site?


posted by stinkz
  

That's doesn't change a thing



stinkz:
And this has anything to do with the fact that your information comes, not from a news or unbiased website, but from an obviously anti-religious site?

I, too, would have liked it more that it didn't come from such a site. But it doesn't change any of Adolf Hitler's words.


posted by knn
  



Stinkz is just upset because Hitler shares rather a lot of his political views! *giggles*


posted by fatpie42
  

You mean these?



Full gun registration.
Enlargement of the public education system.
Animal rights.

What Nazi political view do I adhere to, fatpie?




As for Hitler being a Christian...

"Their hierarchical organization and the initiation through symbolic rites, that is to say without bothering the brains but by working on the imagination through magic and the symbols of a cult - all this is the dangerous element and the element I have taken over. Don't you see that our party must be of this character?...An Order, that is what it has to be - an Order, the hierarchical Order of a secular priesthood." - Adolph Hitler

posted by stinkz
  If popular thought feels 'science' to be different from all other kinds of knowledge because science is experimentally verifiable, it is mistaken.

Heil Veggie



stinkz:
Full gun registration.
Enlargement of the public education system.
Animal rights.

Are you citing Hitler here? Hitler was vegetarian by the way.


posted by knn
  



knn:
Are you citing Hitler here?

His regime supported the three things I stated.


posted by stinkz
  



Its easy to justify anything if you say your doing it for God, pretty retarded.

posted by Agent Zero
  

regardless



Well, what are the possibilities regarding Hitler?

(1) Publicly Christian, privately Christian ("true believer")
(2) Publicly Christian, privately non-Christian (public liar)
(3) Publicly non-Christian, privately non-Christian (non-believer)
(4) Publicly non-Christian, privately Christian (?)

(I don't think anyone seriously considers (4), just adding it for completeness.)

So Christians would argue (2) or (3) meaning that Hitler was a Christian only by words, not by deeds/beliefs, or was not a Christian at all. Atheists would argue (1) or (2), meaning that Hitler was either a true believer, or demonstrating the bad that can be done in the name of religion.

What are the ramifications of each of these possibilities? (Feel free to ignore (4)).

posted by Tiefling
  

What makes you so sure about Bush?



Agent Zero:
Its easy to justify anything if you say your doing it for God, pretty retarded.

It's as easy as anybody else, including George W. Bush and the pope. What makes you sure that you won't think that Bush was a liar regarding his faith in a few years?


posted by knn
  

Hitler was a public Christian



Tiefling:
(3) Publicly non-Christian, privately non-Christian (non-believer)

This doesn't apply since Hitler was publically a Christian. The citations above are from his books and his public appearances.


posted by knn
  



I concur, at least based on the quotes you presented. Unless we have further info, it sounds like he was either a "true" Christian or a "public" Christian, private non-believer.

posted by Tiefling
  

knn... mark out your post!



knn:
What makes you sure that you won't think that Bush was a liar regarding his faith in a few years?

Because Bush hasn't done anything to justify remembering him as a fiend. Stop spreading your anti-Bush propaganda from thread to thread. Stay ontopic!


posted by stinkz
  



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