»Have any of the prophecies of the bible been fulfilled?«
|
|||
 stinkz: knn: And I am sure you really liked that children's book that described all the fulfilled prophecies. Yah, Isaiah. Uff, for heaven's sake. Are you a child? Isaya: "The saviour will ride on a donkey" Matthew (after reading Isaya): "Jesus rode on a donkey" OR: Isaya: "The saviour will ride on a donkey" Jesus reads Isaya and says: "Let's ride a donkey" It NEVER came into your mind that Isaya's prophecies were self-fulfilling? Isiah: "The Messiah would be born of a virgin." Evangelist: "And, oh, Mary was a virgin" Give me a break: Evangelist read the old prophecies, too, thus knew what to write to "fulfill" the prophecy. Here are all of Isaia's prophecies:  They are all laughable. posted by knn |
|||
|
|
|||
| in-my-opinion.orgReligion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolvesReligious & Philosophical TopicsHave any of the prophecies of the bible been fulfilled? |
|
|||
 (Self-denying prophecy) Coffee grounds reader: "You will die tomorrow in a car crash" Victim stays all day in bed and survives. (Near-obvious prophecy) Magician to an 80-year-old man: "You will die within the next 20 years" (Self-fulfilling prophecy) Isayah: "The prophet's bones will not be broken" John (after reading Isayah): "The bones of Jesus have not been broken" posted by knn |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Quran is true. Why? Because the Quran says so Or: The prophecies of the Quran came true. How do we know? Because Quran says that they came true. Noticing anything? posted by knn |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Please also note that many prophecies are of the kind: "The Messiah would speak with God given knowledge" or "The Messiah would not be rebellious to God's will." or "The Messiah would be God's sacrificial lamb." or "The Messiah would have the Spirit of God upon Him." You can judge for yourself how "concrete" and "hard-fact-proven" that is to be counted as fullfilled prophecy. posted by knn |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
 Isaiah, like Daniel, was largely written after the fact. The gospel authors also added elements to their tales in an attempt to satisfy other prophecies from Isaiah. posted by Tiefling |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Actually, home.nc.rr.com... is an interesting example of Bible prophecy. Many Christians use this chapter to claim fulfilled Bible prophecy (the events can be seen to perfectly describe the history of the Seleucid and Ptolemaic Greeks). However, other Christians claim that the events in this chapter actually describe events in the future (in order to justify their belief in the Rapture). In addition, it is very likely that the entire book of Daniel was actually written after the fact, and that its "prophecy" was nothing more than cleverly disguised history/current events! The Book of Daniel consists of twelve chapters of which only the first half, the narrative portion concerns us here. Like Jonah, it pretence at being a historical work is foiled by the author’s poor knowledge of history. That he profoundly ignorant of the history of 6th century BCE can be seen in the following errors he made:
Mistakes in Details Regarding the Fall of Jerusalem Mistakes Regarding Belshazzar Mistakes Regarding the Succession of Babylonian Kingdoms We see that Daniel was actually written around 167-164BCE and that he had less than honest reasons for pretending to be a work of the 6th century BCE. posted by Tiefling |
|||
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Tiefling: Actually,
Daniel 11 is an interesting example of Bible prophecy. Many Christians The Daniel book is the reason why Jerusalem was destroyed. Many Jews around 70 AD believed that Daniel prophecised the near end. At the very date they thought the end would be (by their interpretation of the Daniel) they gathered in the temple. The Romans saw a good way to kill many Jews and shut the temple from the outside and set fire to the temple. This fire grew bigger and ignited eventually the whole city. Just to remind everyone how foggy these so called prophecies are. You can read EVERYTHING and ANYTHING into them. Luther believed that the end would come during his life. In case you don't know the prophecy of Daniel and a possible interpretation:  posted by knn |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
The model the Witnesses use does not have a definite direct object. I couldn't find on the page who the Witnesses are. Jehovah's Witnesses? posted by Tiefling |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Tiefling: I couldn't find on the page who the Witnesses are. Jehovah's Witnesses? Pretty sure. A short form of "Jehovah's witnesses" posted by knn |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Okay, so you don't beleive in prophecy... Hmmm., maybe in nothing spiritual, either. But, take a look at the last thread of the post on the hyperlink below. This fellow seems to know Bible prophecy. A lot better than I do.  The choice is yours, beleive or perish. UC posted by Unknown Christian |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Unknown Christian: But, take a look at the last thread of the post on the hyperlink below. This fellow seems to know Bible prophecy. A lot better than I do. That's an excerpt from "THE SOON COMING CLIMAX". The poster could at least cite his source rather than copying-and-pasting and trying to pass it off as his own work. Anyway, that tract has some of the worst claims of fulfilled bible prophecy I've ever seen. Let's go through it, point by point (text of referenced bible verses inserted): 1. The Jewish people would be scattered worldwide; yet Israel would become a nation again after a long time and at a time the Bible calls the "latter days"-ref Isa 66:8; Mic 5:3; Ezek 38:8.
2. Israel shall be brought forth in one day, at once-ref Isa 66:8. Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948. 3. Israel would be brought forth (or reborn) "out of the nations"-Ezek 38:8. Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948. 4. Israel must regain the city of Jerusalem-Joel 2:32; Isa 28:14; Ezek 22:19. This happened just as predicted in 1967. These mostly come from the book of Isaiah. This is the same book that contains all of these other failed prophecies:  5. The Christian church at the time of the end would be lukewarm, neither cold nor hot for Jesus. Prophecy fulfilled. That’s 5 out of 5. No verses are even referenced here, so this one can be easily discarded. 6. The Bible gives us over 50 descriptions about the people at the time of the end. These fit the
people of today perfectly, but did not fit the people of fifty years ago. Here are some: Ah, ok, so he's going to prove we're living in the "end times" by demonstrating how life today is quite different than life at the time the prophecies were written. Let's see how well he does. A. Some would depart from the faith and go into devil worship-1 Tim 4:1. I Timothy 4:1: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; This is perfect. That's a pretty generic prophecy. "A time will come when some people who once had faith in this religion no longer do." It could apply to every religion that has ever existed since the beginning of human history. It's also a pretty clever "prophecy." The founders of a religion promise that some extraordinary event will occur at an indeterminate point in the future. They realize that over time, some people will stop believing that this event will occur. So the founders add a "prophecy" saying that in the time when some people stop believing, that it is then that the event will occur. It's a great way to reinspire faith in your religion when its faith is flagging. "Look! Our religion is falling apart. This must mean we'll soon be proven right!" B. People would mock about the last days and not believe-2 Pe 3:3; Jude 18. People have been claiming these are the last days for 2000 years. As one example: 1000-JAN-1: Many Christians in Europe had predicted the end of the world on this date. As the date approached, Christian armies waged war against some of the Pagan countries in Northern Europe. The motivation was to convert them all to Christianity, by force if necessary, before Christ returned in the year 1000. Meanwhile, some Christians had given their possessions to the Church in anticipation of the end. Fortunately, the level of education was so low that many citizens were unaware of the year. They did not know enough to be afraid. Otherwise, the panic might have been far worse than it was. Unfortunately, when Jesus did not appear, the church did not return the gifts. Serious criticism of the Church followed. The Church reacted by exterminating some heretics. These times are no different than any other time in the last 2000 years in this respect --- there have always been people mocking Christianity's "any day now" mentality. To date, the mockers have been correct C. People would become lovers of themselves-2 Tim 3:1,2. II Timothy 3:1-2: This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Remember the TV commercials—"I do it for me"? D. People would be disobeying their parents-2 Tim 3:1,2. E. People would be grateful for nothing-2 Tim 3:1,2. I don't think this one even requires a response. He's claiming that the time in which we live is very different from the 2000 years before us, because only in these times are there arrogant people, or disobedient people, or unthankful people. So all of those personality flaws have only emerged in the past few decades...  H. People would love pleasures more than God-2 Tim 3:1,2,4. This is true. Shall we go on a picnic, watch football, or sleep. Church?—we can go another time. Our American motto "In God we trust" has become a joke. Remember, these were all predicted centuries ago as part of the signs that we are at the time of the end. ... And people have never loved pleasures more than god before? This is new in the last couple of decades? Shall I refer you to the sale of indulgences by the Catholic Church? I. People would be taking drugs-Rev 9:21. Revelation 9:21: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. The Greek word for sorceries, in Rev 9:21, means pharmaceuticals or drugs. First, there's no basis to claim that "sorceries" means drugs, unless you're claiming that every other reference to sorceries also is a reference to pharmaceuticals?  Second, recreational drug use has been going on for centuries, so this, too, is not something new to the 21st century.  7. There would be weapons that could destroy the world-Mk 13:20; Rev 6:8; Rev 9:18; Zech 14:8,12. Incredibly, this prophecy was written in the days of spears and arrows, yet today it is true. Mark 13:20: And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. Revelation 6:8: And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Revelation 9:17-18: And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. Zechariah 14:8: And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. Zechariah 14:12: And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. That’s 7 out of 7. Note: It is estimated that the combined nuclear arsenals of the USA and Russia (as of the year 2004) could kill every living thing on earth 6 times over. Not a single referenced verse has anything to do with nuclear weapons. Mark 13:20 says that nobody except "the elect" will survive the end days (that's why it's called "The End", after all). Rev 6:8 talks about Death, who kills with the sword, hunger, death (yes, he kills you with death), and the beasts of the earth. Rev 9:17-18 comes closest, but talks about an army of horsemen, not nuclear weapons. Zechariah 14:8,12 say that god's going to smite anyone who fought against Jerusalem (but I don't think god stockpiles nuclear weapons to do so). So none of these verses represent fulfilled bible prophecy. Unknown Christian: The choice is yours, beleive or perish. A few centuries ago you could have enforced this comment by having me burned at the stake or similarly tortured/executed for not believing in Christianity. I'm quite thankful that we live in times in which your statement is merely an empty threat. posted by Tiefling |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quit twisting words...and trying to cloud up the issue. Ie.. Israel coming back, after thousands of years and being a nation again...and choosing their leader. This "is" the beginning of the end days. IMHO I was refering to the begginging of the end days. Not to everything else that poster wrote in that thread. So if you want to make issue about everything else in that thread, then go do it with the original poster... and not me. UC posted by UC |
|||
|
|||
|
||||||||
 Tiefling: It's a great way to reinspire faith in your religion when its faith is flagging. "Look! Our religion is falling apart. This must mean we'll soon be proven right!" I don't know whether this was the intention of the prophecizer, but I must agree wholeheartedly with Tiefling. Tiefling: I don't think this one even requires a response. He's claiming that the time in which we live is very different from the 2000 years before us, because only in these times are there arrogant people, or disobedient people, or unthankful people. Let me also add that a description like "People will fall from the right faith" has a triple meaning/intent:
So it's an interesting twist. Let me add again, that a statement like "People will fall from faith" is so obvious, general and human that it's unfair to call this even a prophecy. I don't know if there was a single faith on earth that lasted more than 200 years before it changed. Including Christianity. posted by knn |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
|||
|
UC: Quit twisting words...and trying to cloud up the issue.
Ie.. Israel coming back, after thousands of years and being a nation again...and choosing their leader. Where did I twist your words? And how did I cloud the issue? You stated: UC: But, take a look at the last thread of the post on the hyperlink below. This fellow seems to know Bible prophecy. A lot better than I do. in the context of a thread on whether or not bible prophecy has been fulfilled. This implies that you believe that bible prophecy has been fulfilled, and your proof is the content of a post on another forum. So, I simply went through the content of the post (which wasn't even original material; it was stolen from a well-known Christian tract) and showed why it did not prove a single prophecy to be fulfilled. UC: This "is" the beginning of the end days. IMHO You're not alone. Millions of people over the past 2000 years have felt the same thing. In their humble opinion. They believed Jesus would be coming back any day. They've all used the exact same reasoning as you --- "We live in such evil times; times have never been more evil than these times; and based on the date, Jesus should be coming back any day now!" But guess what? Every single one of them has been wrong. So my apologies, but your "humble opinion" is insufficient to prove your point. UC: I was refering to the begginging of the end days.
Not to everything else that poster wrote in that thread. I only addressed the content of the last post in that thread, as you instructed. I completely ignored the entirety of the rest of the thread. UC: So if you want to make issue about everything else in that thread, then go do it with the original poster... and not me. That's the danger you run into in referencing content from another forum. It's not my responsibility to subscribe to another forum just so I can debate with another poster over there! I've clearly shown why everything in that post you referenced is inadequate. It's now your job to prove me wrong. Barring that, get the poster from that forum to come post over here. But based on the fact that the poster over there was simply copying and pasting material that he didn't create, I doubt he'll have the analytical skills to defend his argument. knn: Let me also add that a description like "People will fall from the right faith" has a triple meaning/intent  to knn's entire post. So what do you think knn --- was it deliberate deception? Was the writer of the "prophecy" a very shrewd judge of human nature? Or did he really think that these events would come to pass?
Maybe he, too, was guilty of stealing content --- maybe he just was the first to put this down in writing. posted by Tiefling |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Tiefling: You're not alone. Millions of people over the past 2000 years have felt the same thing. In their humble opinion. They believed Jesus would be coming back any day. Actually 50 AD or so a group of followers went to the desert because the Lord would come down every minute. They were rescued by the police. Tiefling: So what do you think knn --- was it deliberate deception? Was the writer of the "prophecy" a very shrewd judge of human nature? Or did he really think that these events would come to pass? This actually brings me to the next point: How do we know that these prophecies haven't been fullfilled already? Only because the "interpreters" claim that they are about the end of the world. But maybe they only describe "In five years from now there will be a goat plague". The prophecy was correct, it happened, but we are still waiting for it. Other than that: There is NOTHING comparable to the mishmash of John's revelation as I write at IMO → The end of the world is near according to the Bible#21601 and at IMO → Biggest evils in the world#15905 posted by knn |
|||
|
|||
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next
Goto page
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next
 Register Log in |
The time now is 21 November 2008, 02:13 php B.B. |