»Is the holocaust comparable to other crimes?«
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 Crossfade: how the germans could commit such acts, soldiers were just doing their duty to their country but i cant believe they did such things. The same things as with romans who were even more cruel. I don't remember any German soldier practicing crucifications or lion games for fun. posted by knn |
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| in-my-opinion.orgPoliticsPolitics and Crime (Assorted topics)Is the holocaust comparable to other crimes? |
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 knn: I don't remember any German soldier practicing crucifications or lion games for fun. Sure, they did everything absolutely seriously and for the sake of higher purposes, right? Using human skin to make book covers and lamps for example. Totally scientific, isn't it?  As far as crucifications are concerned... I guess Germans are too accurate for that, they just burnt people. Faster, neater, less work involved. I guess if they would find the crucification a useful means of extracting information, they would have used it too. But they preferred other methods, right? posted by mymla |
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 mymla: Using human skin to make book covers and lamps for example. Totally scientific, isn't it? Yeah, tasteless, but shows that they utilized every material they got. Gold teeth and hair was used, too. Treating men as animals. mymla: I guess if they would find the crucification a useful means of extracting information, they would have used it too. But they preferred other methods, right? Exactly. Crucification is bestialic. posted by knn |
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 I don't believe this, it is not possible for a human being to do such things to children. The holocaust happened because responsibility was divided among a whole people, and also because people could believe they were following orders. But for individuals to commit such acts of their own volition is not possible. posted by ralph_angelus |
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ralph_angelus: But for individuals to commit such acts of their own volition is not possible. I think it IS possible. And even more. Moreover: Throwing an atom bomb, that kills 1 million people, is worse but that's another thread. posted by knn |
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knn: Throwing an atom bomb, that kills 1 million people, is worse but that's another thread No that is completely different. Delivering an atom bomb is not the decision of the pilot or the gunner, but that of the military or governmental executive. And they can make themselves believe "It is for the country", and there is also the pressure of military threats which is what forces them to make such a decision. And in any case they would not feel responsible. They would be detached and quite far away from the action to feel any compunctions. But an (allegedly) sane individual performing brutal operations on children; that is what I find impossible. posted by ralph_angelus |
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ralph_angelus: No that is completely different. Delivering an atom bomb is not the decision of the pilot or the gunner, but that of the military or governmental executive I didn't state that the PILOT is worse than Mengele. He is just a pilot. The guy who finally orders to drop the bomb is the culprit. ralph_angelus: And they can make themselves believe "It is for the country", So? Mengele did it for science. Science is even a higher goal than country, since science is accepted thruout the universe. ralph_angelus: And in any case they would not feel responsible. They would be detached and quite far away from the action to feel any compunctions. Exactly. A case of self-hypnosis. But the fact remains that torturing some kids for a week is less bad than torturing thousands of humans for months/years (radiation victims). ralph_angelus: But an (allegedly) sane individual performing brutal operations on children; that is what I find impossible. But a "sane" politician ordering to bomb a town is "more possible"? posted by knn |
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well there are three major differences 1. Detachment - The people who are the 'ultimate' arbitrators of wars/bombings etc are never present in the actual theatre and can only feel a limited amount of remorse. But in Mengele's case he is not just near the action, he performed the operations himself. 2. Responsibility - Leaders of large societies have a psychological buffer that is inherent to their position. Their attachment to the people they have to protect allows them to rationalise brutal actions against societies which threaten their own. 3. Children - All organisms, humans particularly, have a special attitude towards young ones of their own species. There is a world of difference between harming a child on a table before you and harming a group of faceless people you don't know and have never met. posted by ralph_angelus |
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1) Self-Hypnosis and detachment from others 2) Self-Hypnosis and detachment from others 3) Victims of an atom bomb include children, too Everything you say sound like "Yeah, but look it's much cleaner for the bomb deliverer" OF COURSE IT'S CLEANER. But it's worse nevertheless. posted by knn |
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 And alot of bombs leave traces of radiation that effect people worse cus they don't neccessarily die! The argument is, is dropping an atomic bomb and killing 1 000 000 people instantly worse than slowly torturing them over a few months and killing a million aswell With the detention camps though, atleast they could escape! They might be emotionally scarred but atleast they have their lives, you can't escape an atom bomb... 
posted by hungarian kid |
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hungarian kid: They might be emotionally scarred but atleast they have their lives Is that really better? Leading a horrible life or no life at all? knn: Everything you say sound like "Yeah, but look it's much cleaner for the bomb deliverer"
OF COURSE IT'S CLEANER. But it's worse nevertheless. I didn't say anything about which is 'worse' or better. Of course, killing a million people is far worse. Just that one action would be far more taxing to the conscience and less justifiable, and hence unlikely to comitted by a human(e) being. posted by ralph_angelus |
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ralph_angelus: hungarian kid:They might be emotionally scarred but atleast they have their lives
Is that really better? Leading a horrible life or no life at all? Depends how they cope with it! Like I said, it's probably better to die in the bomb blast then to get sick from the radiation and leading a horribly sick life! If they escaped befor any emotional trauma, then it could be considered better but then again, would you prefer being hideously tortured for several days and eventually dieing or escaping and living a life with a bit of emotional trauma? posted by hungarian kid |
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ralph_angelus: Just that one action would be far more taxing to the conscience and less justifiable, and hence unlikely to comitted by a human(e) being. But it's only more taxing to the conscience because of self-hypnosis and detachment. posted by knn |
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ralph_angelus: All organisms, humans particularly, have a special attitude towards young ones of their own species. There is a world of difference between harming a child on a table before you and harming a group of faceless people you don't know and have never met. All that makes a difference is your own mentality. Nazis were more than 100% sure that every other race except theirs was inferior and not human enough. So they treated all the people irrespective of their age as animals, or rather as material. They didn't see anythig morally wrong, for them they were not violating any humanity rules. ralph_angelus: I don't believe this, it is not possible for a human being to do such things to children. Unfortunately, it is possible. Was and still is. I guess there are people doing worse things to children. The Nazis were doing it for the sake of science, some nowadays do it for pleasure. posted by mymla |
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 this kind of barbarity is not confined to the nazi's but they were the ones who essentially industrialized genocide and while the numbers involved were huge...the personal and individual killings were also shocking and disgusting but it happens everywhere as in this pic from indonesia [CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE] posted by the anomaly |
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