»Personal Evangelism Teacher = stinkz?«
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 And don't you tell me that this is offtopic, knn, I think this definitely goes under SHOCKING. 
I've gotten into so many arguments ever since this personal evangelism class was started in my church. I have no problem with the material that our teacher provides us, but the presentation...oh my holy moly. I felt like cussing a couple of times. He has practically the same beliefs as stinkz. All that talk about rationality and liberal propoganda and stuff like that. He has a terribly altered view of Islam, which I pointed out, and he actually said, when regarding questions from nonbelievers, "Clear consise direct answers are a rarity in the Bible. Why should we do it?" I nearly exploded on that one...someone had to intervene from letting this get too vicious.
And when I asked him all this stuff and pointed out several (ok, MANY) things that were wrong in his packet that he wrote himself, he looked down on me from the stool that he was sitting on and gave me this poisonous glare for the entire time I was talking. God. Also, he even used the ad hominem device against me. "How many people have you talked to about Christianity before?" Me: I've lost count. Him: I've talked to HUNDREDS, ramble ramble ramble Oh my gosh. I get SO pissed off at him. I am KNOWN in church now for getting in such fierce...*ahem* ...conversations with him. The only difference between him and stinkz is the age difference. My personal evangelism teacher is old and balding. posted by nocturnal_anonymous |
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| in-my-opinion.orgReligion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolvesReligious & Philosophical TopicsPersonal Evangelism Teacher = stinkz? |
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 Blooming eck. What the hell is a 'personal evangelism class'. Sounds scary. Since evangelism normally means spreading the word of God to other people it sounds like a 'bible bashing class'. Do correct me if I'm wrong. What sort of questions have you asked this guy nocturne? And what answers did he give? Which questions does he thoroughly dodge? I'd love to hear more.  posted by fatpie42 |
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 nocturnal_anonymous: And don't you tell me that this is offtopic, knn, I think this definitely goes under SHOCKING. This goes to "Religion", but I won't mark it offtopic, since you introduced it so nicely  nocturnal_anonymous: Personal Evangelism Teacher I mean, you go to a religious class and then wonder that the teacher is religious? nocturnal_anonymous: Me: I've lost count.
Him: I've talked to HUNDREDS, ramble ramble ramble Talking to hundreds doesn't mean anything. You have to talk to other-believers... Send him to this forum here. Let's see how good he really is. Be warned: He might tell your parents what happens here  nocturnal_anonymous: My personal evangelism teacher is old and balding. Tell him, that he will die soon, and since he has prayed to Satan, the Lord of this World, he will be surprised what happens next... posted by knn |
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fatpie42: Blooming eck. What the hell is a 'personal evangelism class'. Sounds scary.
Since evangelism normally means spreading the word of God to other people it sounds like a 'bible bashing class'. Do correct me if I'm wrong. Well...basically the class is supposed to teach us how to spread the gospel to individual people. Our teacher emphasizes on not starting an argument or offending the person you are talking to, and I support that too. fatpie42: What sort of questions have you asked this guy nocturne? And what answers did he give? Which questions does he thoroughly dodge? I'd love to hear more. OK, then...you asked for it.
So, the first problem I had with him was his generalization about the Islamic religion. I talked to him about this after the class. He kept saying that Islam was based on hatred towards other religions and that killing other people that did not believe in your religion was considered righteous in Islam. I told him that he was taking one group = the al-Quaeda (sp?) and talking about the entire religion of Islam based on that one group. He said that he wasn't overgeneralizing because the founder of Islam said that it was okay to do that in the Qu'ran. Again, he used the ad hominem method on me ("Have you read the Qu'ran? I have..."  ) And now, I am determined to read it, because I distinctly remember that in our history book, Muslim people were for the brotherhood of all people, which does not include killing people of other religions. But hey, maybe that's just me.
He also had an extremely annoying second problem, which I did not retaliate to because people were already getting annoyed with me and wanted to carry on with the lesson. He kept saying how the writers of the Bible were "well-respected men" and "highly regarded men" of their time, which we all know is not true. The followers of Jesus were jailed, persecuted, stoned, crucified, and thought of criminals. Where the heck does he get his info? 
posted by nocturnal_anonymous |
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The third and most recent argument I got into with him was during the actual class. He had a packet of info that he typed up himself, kind of like "tips" to help us. I have the paper right in front of me, so I'll quote exactly what he wrote: "Jesus answered questions with questions...Throughout the gospels answering a question with a question was the norm. A clear concise, direct answer was a rarity. Why should you do it." So I pointed out that direct answers were NOT a rarity. Answering a question with a question may be a good tactic (to show the error in someone's philosophy), but you can't just leave them at that. You have to provide them with your own answer too. He listed a bunch of examples where Jesus answered a question with a question/parable, but when I flipped to those verses, I pointed out again that Jesus provided the answer to those questions after he asked them. That's when the glare started coming . I remember that the class was dead silent, and he just kept on glaring/staring at me evilly . I wasn't trying to be difficult or anything, I just wanted to correct his errors, which is a good thing (like constructive criticism). I guess he just can't handle the fact that he could be wrong. 
Oh yeah, some of the questions that he lists here are supposed to be EXAMPLES. They are EXTREMELY confrontational. And he says , "I've shared with hundreds of people...and I never get into arguments." *cough gag* You just did, Mister...with me.
Here's one of the examples that he gave us from a book: Atheist: So I suppose you think all those sincere followers of other religions are going to Hell? 'Christian': Do you believe in Hell? Atheist: No, I don't believe in Hell. I think it's ridiculous. 'Christian': Well, then why are you asking me such a ridiculous question? Does that last question even have ANY relevance whatsoever to the conversation at hand? And oh yeah, suuure, this isn't going to provoke the person you're asking.
posted by nocturnal_anonymous |
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knn: I mean, you go to a religious class and then wonder that the teacher is religious? What d'ya mean? Most everyone at church is religious. I just didn't know that he could be so...much...like stinkz. Ya know? knn: Talking to hundreds doesn't mean anything. You have to talk to other-believers... Send him to this forum here. Let's see how good he really is. Be warned: He might tell your parents what happens here Um, and let him read this thread? No thanks. He'll kill me before he gets to my parents. knn: Tell him, that he will die soon, and since he has prayed to Satan, the Lord of this World, he will be surprised what happens next... Puleez. Knn...is this really what you want? Do you really want me to die that badly? I don't really want to have such a tragic death...trampled into the ground by my classmates and my teacher and forever remembered as the bad Sunday School student... Besides...I'm too young to die.
posted by nocturnal_anonymous |
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nocturnal_anonymous: He kept saying how the writers of the Bible were "well-respected men" and "highly regarded men" of their time There is not much known about the writers of the New Testament, except for Paul. As for the Old Testament there is not much known either. Since the Old Testament is said to be written during CENTURIES. Thus the only thing we basically know about the writers is what they write about themselves. posted by knn |
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nocturnal_anonymous: Here's one of the examples that he gave us from a book:
Atheist: So I suppose you think all those sincere followers of other religions are going to Hell? 'Christian': Do you believe in Hell? Atheist: No, I don't believe in Hell. I think it's ridiculous. 'Christian': Well, then why are you asking me such a ridiculous question? Does that last question even have ANY relevance whatsoever to the conversation at hand? And oh yeah, suuure, this isn't going to provoke the person you're asking. I completely agree with you nocturnal_anonymous posted by knn |
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nocturnal_anonymous: Atheist: So I suppose you think all those sincere followers of other religions are going to Hell?
'Christian': Do you believe in Hell? Atheist: No, I don't believe in Hell. I think it's ridiculous. 'Christian': Well, then why are you asking me such a ridiculous question? Why does he presume that he will be talking to an atheist and not an agnostic? If you say to an agnostic "Do you believe in hell?" they are more likely to say "I don't know whether hell exists, but I do not understand why any 'loving' God would want to send people to it for all eternity. Especially if the crime they have committed is 'not knowing that God exists'. Ignorance does not sound like a crime worthy of eternal suffering." If anyone replied to that with "Well why are you asking me?" it would sound like they were conceding defeat. posted by fatpie42 |
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nocturnal_anonymous: He also had an extremely annoying second problem, which I did not retaliate to because people were already getting annoyed with me and wanted to carry on with the lesson. He kept saying how the writers of the Bible were "well-respected men" and "highly regarded men" of their time, which we all know is not true. The followers of Jesus were jailed, persecuted, stoned, crucified, and thought of criminals. Where the heck does he get his info? Actually he is probably right there. The writers of the Bible weren't the actual disciples. Remember the gospels weren't written until at least 100 years after Jesus' death. The disciples of Jesus who were persecuted were not the ones who came to write the story of Jesus in the gospels. So technically your evangelism teacher is right. Even so, being respected does not instantly mean that they wrote down the story that the original disciples would have wanted written. But your teacher is probably right, the writers probably were well respected men. posted by fatpie42 |
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 fatpie42: The disciples of Jesus who were persecuted were not the ones who came to write the story of Jesus in the gospels. So technically your evangelism teacher is right Why is that? Who wrote the gospel of Mark? It's unknown, thus you cannot claim that the teacher is right and the writer was respected. posted by knn |
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 nocturnal_anonymous: So, the first problem I had with him was his generalization about the Islamic religion. I talked to him about this after the class. He kept saying that Islam was based on hatred towards other religions and that killing other people that did not believe in your religion was considered righteous in Islam. I told him that he was taking one group = the al-Quaeda (sp?) and talking about the entire religion of Islam based on that one group. He said that he wasn't overgeneralizing because the founder of Islam said that it was okay to do that in the Qu'ran. Again, he used the ad hominem method on me ("Have you read the Qu'ran? I have..." ) And now, I am determined to read it, because I distinctly remember that in our history book, Muslim people were for the brotherhood of all people, which does not include killing people of other religions. But hey, maybe that's just me.i get really annoyed by people who do this. ask him if he knows any muslims personally? (and by that i mean, not muslims that he has tried to convert to christianity, but muslims that he actually sat down and listened to, took the time to get to know). or has he just looked at a terrorist organization who claims to be muslim and go by what they say the quran means? (one of my best friends in 9-10th grade was muslim, he went to church with me a couple times...catholic church, the people at my church did not judge him or give him evil glares at all. he was a nice guy. really funny too) people can do the same thing for christians, take just one example of extreme christians who interpret the bible to say certain things and then say that all christians are like that and believe that...because the bible tells them to do it...same thing. i bet there are some christians out there who believe that it is ok to kill others and not have tolerance towards others who believe something different. but then im sure his answer would be...those extreme case of christians...arent real christians they just use the bible to hide behind their devilish actions. if he has read the quran, test him on it. just because he says he read the quran doesnt mean he read all of it or even understood all of it. read a couple books from it and quote from them for him. but then again, you might get in trouble for reading the quran when you could have used that time to read the bible. 
posted by allone |
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 Possible signs that Christianity is bloodthirsty: Christianity says that you should kill abortionists because the Bible says "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life". Christianity worships an image of a man who is also their God being brutally executed. Christians have a ritual where they drink wine which represents blood. Some even claim that during the ritual the wine IS blood. Christianity persecutes homosexuals because the Bible calls homsexuality an "abomination". Christianity insists that all its followers should be sexually repressed. The Bible even suggests that you should castrate yourself if you have the urge to have sex before marriage since Jesus says in the Bible that you should cut off organs that cause you to sin. posted by fatpie42 |
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 there are many different factions of christianity, some take it very literally and out of context. well, this is what my "version" of christianity believes: fatpie42: Christianity says that you should kill abortionists because the Bible says "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life i was taught to love the sinner but hate the sin. killing abortionists is definitely against that. fatpie42: Jesus says in the Bible that you should cut off organs that cause you to sin. interpretation. to some (including me), jesus was illustrating the point that sin is deathly, and the magnitude of commiting a sin. he didn't make his disciples to cut off their body parts, even though they sinned. nowhere in the bible did that happen. he was illustrating a point. posted by sangu |
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fatpie42: Remember the gospels weren't written until at least 100 years after Jesus' death. The disciples of Jesus who were persecuted were not the ones who came to write the story of Jesus in the gospels. Look, I could go into this whole thing about the validity of the Bible and how the time difference between the time it was written and the earliest copies that we have is much less than that of secular history books which most would recognize as being written by the authors that the books say it has been written by (such as Plato and Demosthenes) , but that would be off-topic. So don't even make me go there. I'm not risking any more $imo. (haha just kidding) allone: ask him if he knows any muslims personally? precisely what I wanted to say. I have a friend who is Muslim and she is very very nice. But my teacher could just say: However, if it is true that the Muslim religion teaches violence, the fact is still the fact. Just because Muslims can be nice doesn't mean their religion does not teach violence. allone: people can do the same thing for christians, take just one example of extreme christians who interpret the bible to say certain things and then say that all christians are like that and believe that...because the bible tells them to do it...same thing. yup, I tried to bring up the KKK, but he just kept talking and talking and talking and talking. He never lets people finish their questions, GAWD. I was getting so pissed off I wanted to bring up Hitler, but somehow I don't think that would be a good idea. allone: read a couple books from it and quote from them for him. yeah, I still have to get ahold of a copy...I can't drive to the library yet, so that is kind of a problem since I don't have much time to spare...I think someone told me that our pastor has one in his office, but he might be suspicious if I asked him if I could borrow it, ya know? posted by nocturnal_anonymous |
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