»The Schizophrenic Brain«
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Here is a graphic I made up comparing the brain of a schizophrenic person to that of a normal person. Notice the overall differences, especially in the size of the ventricles. The ventricles serve to cushion the brain and protect it from impact. Do you really think that a person this different physically - not to mention mentally - should go untreated instead of seeking help? [CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE] posted by holy_of_holies |
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| in-my-opinion.orgPoliticsPsychiatry and Anti-PsychiatryThe Schizophrenic Brain |
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knn: 1) Is that your pic? 
2) Is that before or after medication? 3) Offtopic 1) It is not my brain, but, as I am schizoaffective (a form of schizophrenia), I probably have similar abnormalities to those pictured. 2) Doesn't matter. Psychiatric drugs do not eat away at the brain or cause the ventricles to expand like that. 3) New topic posted by holy_of_holies |
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 Look, I don't doubt that some funny things an happen if you have holes in the brain. The brain is a peculiar thing. BUT unless you YOURSELF don't have such abnormalities you cannot assume that EVERY schiz has these. Or that psycho-illnesses are based on brain changes. Even _IF_ all schiz had holes in their brain, it's not a proof that the holes are making the schiz. In fact I can claim now: Hearing voices when there is nobody is a sign of demons. Pray to Jesus. Bow in front of Maria. posted by knn |
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knn: Look, I don't doubt that some funny things an happen if you have holes in the brain. The brain is a peculiar thing. Well, we all have "holes" in our brains full of cerebro-spinal fluid; that's what ventricles are. It's just that schizophrenia can cause the holes to expand and brain tissue to be lost. knn: BUT unless you YOURSELF don't have such abnormalities you cannot assume that EVERY schiz has these. Or that psycho-illnesses are based on brain changes.
Even _IF_ all schiz had holes in their brain, it's not a proof that the holes are making the schiz. LOL...Your claim is that even if (a) all schizophrenics have been observed to have lost gray matter in the brain and have abnormal morphology of the brain and (b) all schizophrenics have psychotic symptoms, then it is impossible to conclude that the psychotic symptoms are a result of an abnormally formed brain. The brain is not that mysterious. There are physical differences between people and these differences can cause illness. Now, we cannot conclude that the only cause of schizophrenia is brain morphology, but we can be pretty sure the two are related. knn: In fact I can claim now: Hearing voices when there is nobody is a sign of demons. Pray to Jesus. Bow in front of Maria. When I was a kid, I sometimes heard whispering voices when I was trying to get to sleep, but I haven't heard any since I was about 10. And I was not on any medication until I was 24. So why did the demons go away, knn? I grew up in an atheist family... posted by holy_of_holies |
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holy_of_holies: LOL...Your claim is that even if (a) all schizophrenics have been observed to have lost gray matter in the brain and have abnormal morphology of the brain and (b) all schizophrenics have psychotic symptoms, then it is impossible to conclude that the psychotic symptoms are a result of an abnormally formed brain. Yes, you are fooled by statistics. If all cities are observed to have less and less storks AND all cities have a lower and lower birth rate that means that storks bring the children? You are so impressed by holes and brains that you forget that BOTH (holes + schizophrenia) can have a common cause, e.g. demons or gods or own wishes. holy_of_holies: When I was a kid, I sometimes heard whispering voices when I was trying to get to sleep, but I haven't heard any since I was about 10. And I was not on any medication until I was 24. So why did the demons go away, knn? I grew up in an atheist family... Maybe because you started to watch soccer? Who knows? This is another topic "What makes demons go away?" posted by knn |
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knn: Yes, you are fooled by statistics. No statistics were cited. knn: If all cities are observed to have less and less storks AND all cities have a lower and lower birth rate that means that storks bring the children? This is silliness. No one has ever seen a stork bring a baby. However: UCLA brain researchers using a powerful new technique have created the first images showing the devastating impact of schizophrenia on the brain. The findings, published in the Sept. 25 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences*, show how a dynamic wave of tissue loss engulfs the brains of schizophrenic patients in their teen-age years.
The findings may have key diagnostic implications. Aided by a better understanding of how psychosis develops, researchers can detect aberrant loss early and treat patients as early as possible. Future medications might fight the rapid loss of brain tissue, and their effectiveness could be assessed using the imaging technique. "This is the first study to visualize how schizophrenia develops in the brain," said Paul Thompson, an assistant professor of neurology at the UCLA School of Medicine and the study's chief investigator. "Scientists have been perplexed about how schizophrenia progresses and whether there are any physical changes in the brain. We were stunned to see a spreading wave of tissue loss that began in a small region of the brain. It moved across the brain like a forest fire, destroying more tissue as the disease progressed." knn: You are so impressed by holes and brains that you forget that BOTH (holes + schizophrenia) can have a common cause, e.g. demons or gods or own wishes. knn: holy_of_holies: When I was a kid, I sometimes heard whispering voices when I was trying to get to sleep, but I haven't heard any since I was about 10. And I was not on any medication until I was 24. So why did the demons go away, knn? I grew up in an atheist family... Maybe because you started to watch soccer? Who knows? This is another topic "What makes demons go away?" I don't believe in demons or gods. You are right, that's another topic. This is a matter of illness and medicine, not theology or demonology. posted by holy_of_holies |
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holy_of_holies: No statistics were cited. "Statistical lie" is a term that I use often. It means that citing some data can lead to a wrong conclusion without checking all facts and possible differing views. IMO → Statistical tricks and statistics lies#39900 holy_of_holies: schizophrenia.com... Wow, impressive domain name, however nothing they write there can disprove that both schizophrenia AND brain changes have a common cause which lies NOT in the brain. In other words: You could maybe stop schizophrenia by medicine, but maybe it's much better to cast away demons. That would stop the brain damage also. posted by knn |
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knn: In other words: You could maybe stop schizophrenia by medicine, but maybe it's much better to cast away demons. I have agreed with nothing you have yet written more than this. However, there are those of us who don't believe in demons, nor can we be made or convinced to. They make for good fiction, but that's about it. It's like the discussion on this site about prayer helping to heal cancer; it only works if you believe, and I don't believe just because I can't. I am sure too that there are many like me. knn: That would stop the brain damage also. Here's where I disagree. I haven't seen any empirical evidence that suggests that exorcism can cure schizophrenia, though I am sure there are plenty of people who think that it can. Where's the proof? The episode in the Gospels with the mentally ill man in the graveyard? Surely you don't believe that...even if you are Christian, that's an erroneous belief to assume that because Jesus can do something, we can too...he was supposedly God, remember? posted by holy_of_holies |
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holy_of_holies: I have agreed with nothing you have yet written more than this. However, there are those of us who don't believe in demons, You don't have to believe in demons before they ruin your brain  holy_of_holies: Here's where I disagree. I haven't seen any empirical evidence that suggests that exorcism can cure schizophrenia But that would be merely a failure of modern science which concentrates exclusively on brains and genes. And not a counter-proof for demons. You know as much as I am sometimes bashing Christianty, it's always nice to know that everybody can turn on God TV to hear some opinion that puts some higher causes into the center, and does not make humans a total effect of genes. As much as we can shake our head about "Believe in Jesus and he will erase your homosexuality" the bottom line is: Some higher source is more mighty than genes and brains. And so far I have seen nothing about brains than some gimmicks. posted by knn |
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knn: You know as much as I am sometimes bashing Christianty, it's always nice to know that everybody can turn on God TV to hear some opinion that puts some higher causes into the center, and does not make humans a total effect of genes.
As much as we can shake our head about "Believe in Jesus and he will erase your homosexuality" the bottom line is: Some higher source is more mighty than genes and brains. And so far I have seen nothing about brains than some gimmicks. Have you heard of the hypothesis that the cosmic rays ♣ which are constantly passing through our bodies cause random electrical patterns in the central nervous system, which are more pronounced in schizophrenics due to gray matter loss? Is that "high" enough for ya? 
If you want to know who developed that hypothesis, here is a link to his website:  posted by holy_of_holies |
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holy_of_holies: home.comcast.net... Get a real URL and post your theories there. Or post them at IMO. That will give you more publicity than this comcast address... posted by knn |
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 knn: Even _IF_ all schiz had holes in their brain, it's not a proof that the holes are making the schiz. What I think...knn is saying... is that there's a possibility for everything. That's where he's going with the demon slaying, holes don't make the schiz thing. I think he admits it's a high possibility, but who knows for sure. Nothing is for certain. Like my science teacher said, even evolution is a 9.9 on the 0-10 scale. We don't know for certain. posted by sangu |
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I think knn is saying more than there's a possibility demons are attacking me...I think he really believes it might be true... Sample interaction: holy_of_holies:"I think people should take their medication if they need it" knn:"medication is for pussies...psychiatrists are making money off your addiction...those drugs make you crazy...pray to Jesus because you have demons!" So all I'm saying is, there might be young people reading this (none of you of course) who might need to take medication at some point for a mental illness, and I don't want them thinking that there's anything wrong with that. h_o_h posted by holy_of_holies |
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I think he's showing that praying against demons and medication have both equal possibilities. posted by sangu |
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The time now is 6 October 2008, 20:18 php B.B. |