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knn: holy_of_holies: Which one, knn? I await with bated breath your response... I would say "was & is"... 3) Although I couldn't find accurate worldwide statistics online I would say that haloperidol is being overtaken by other mental drugs. I couldn't find much about this either, except that it was developed in 1957, which is ancient for an antipsychotic. Most of the newer antipsychotics like the one I take have very few side effects...I don't see why anyone would use a drug with Haldol's side effect profile unless as you say nothing else is available. posted by holy_of_holies |
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| in-my-opinion.orgPoliticsPsychiatry and Anti-PsychiatryUse of drugs in psychiatry |
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knn: 8) Offtopic fatpie42: How on earth can you have an argument about whether this is good evidence or not when it is not obvious what it is attempting to prove? That is exactly what I think. Only h_o_h's intolerable behavior has led to the survival of this thread. posted by nocturnal_anonymous |
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holy_of_holies: Most of the newer antipsychotics like the one I take have very few side effects...I don't see why anyone would use a drug with Haldol's side effect profile unless as you say nothing else is available. geodon ♣ is fairly new and gets used quite a bit now but with some drugs like clozaril ♣ the side effects are so bad the pharmacy needs a special license to despense it these are all fairly new drugs to treat this: Abilify ♣ ~ Geodon ♣ ~ Risperdal ♣ ~ Seroquel ♣ ~ Zyprexa ♣ and by new i mean within the last 17 years because the patents haven't ran out posted by The ONEder Man |
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nocturnal_anonymous: That is exactly what I think. Only h_o_h's intolerable behavior has led to the survival of this thread. I disagree, he beleives Drugs to be good, knn beleives them to be bad, I don't see how this is intolerable. posted by Kupov |
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Kupov: I disagree, he beleives Drugs to be good, knn beleives them to be bad, I don't see how this is intolerable. It's not the "what", but the "how"... But, you know... it's not intolerable,... it's just...well... holy!... posted by tozy |
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tozy: Kupov: I disagree, he beleives Drugs to be good, knn beleives them to be bad, I don't see how this is intolerable. It's not the "what", but the "how"... But, you know... it's not intolerable,... it's just...well... holy!... Oh poor baby - do you need a shoulder to cry on? posted by holy_of_holies |
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I've taken all five of those separately at various times...Geodon is the least bothersome. Zyprexa was the worst. posted by holy_of_holies |
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nocturnal_anonymous: knn: 8) Offtopic fatpie42: How on earth can you have an argument about whether this is good evidence or not when it is not obvious what it is attempting to prove? That is exactly what I think. Only h_o_h's intolerable behavior has led to the survival of this thread. You haven't lived until you've been castigated by a fourteen-year-old. It makes it worth getting out of bed in the morning to listen to this garbage. posted by holy_of_holies |
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holy_of_holies: Oh poor baby - do you need a shoulder to cry on? one big...HUH? im sorry, but that just flew right over my head, What da heck do you mean? What did tozy say? posted by sangu |
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holy_of_holies: nocturnal_anonymous: fatpie42: How on earth can you have an argument about whether this is good evidence or not when it is not obvious what it is attempting to prove? That is exactly what I think. Only h_o_h's intolerable behavior has led to the survival of this thread. You haven't lived until you've been castigated by a fourteen-year-old. It makes it worth getting out of bed in the morning to listen to this garbage. Thanks for proving my point. OK, look, this thread was started by tozy presenting some material from an interview with Richard Bentall, and that's it. Richard Bentall says that using drugs in psychiatry doesn't always work for all patients, but it works wonders for some - a two-sided opinion. "There's no doubt these drugs help some people by reducing the hallucinations and delusions." "If you talk to patients, some will tell you that drugs are a lifesaver and others that drugs have made their lives worse." AND THEN you come in and basically say that tozy's post is crap, and following that comes a bunch of posts from you that attack users personally. People retort and the thread goes on. Stinkz stirred things up in here, but all you sound like is a "wanna-be stinkz." I don't even know what the hell we're supposed to be arguing about: is it should drugs be used in psychiatry? Or is it whether or not the professor is valid in his observations (which I don't see what there is to argue about)? Or is it about the definition of mental illness? If a substance can cause mental illness? Or discussion about different drugs to treat mental illness? Or everything? This thread is a mess... posted by nocturnal_anonymous |
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HOH: You haven't lived until you've been castigated by a fourteen-year-old. Ok, if she weren't a 14 year old, would you say the same thing? Just wondering...Disregard age, just what the person has to say. And this thread is a bit of a tumbled jumble. posted by sangu |
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For those who doubt that these medications are necessary for some, here is a firsthand account from a good writer of the hallucinations assoicated with schizoaffective disorder (what I have)...I was amazed when I read this how similar this was to my experience; we schizoaffectives don't have nearly the amount of hallucinations that fullblown schizophrenics do, but once one has had them one never wants them again... I haven't heard voices very much, but the few times I have is quite enough for me. While I was in the Intensive Care Unit at the Alhambra Community Psychiatric Center that summer of '85, I heard a woman shout my name - simply "Mike!" It was distant and echoey, so I thought she was shouting my name from down the hall, and I would go look for her and find no one.
Other people hear voices whose words express much more disturbing things. It is common for hallucinations to be harshly critical, to say that one is worthless, or deserves to die. Sometimes their voices keep up a running commentary about what's going on. Sometimes the voices discuss the inner thoughts of the person who hears them, so they think everyone around can hear their private thoughts discussed aloud. (One might or might not have a visual hallucination of someone actually doing the speaking - the voices are often disembodied, but for some reason that doesn't make them any less real to those who hear them. Usually those who hear voices find some way to rationalize why the speech does not have a speaker, for example by believing that the sound is being projected to them over a distance via some kind of radio.) (...) Hallucinations aren't always menacing. I understand some people find what they have to say familiar and comforting, even sweet. And in fact another voice I think I heard (I can't be sure) came when I was hanging out by the nurse's station in the ICU. I heard one of the nurses ask me an inconsequential question, and I answered her only to be surprised to find her looking down at her desk, ignoring me. I think now she hadn't addressed me at all, that the question I heard was one of my voices speaking to me. I became very determined that the voices were going to stop. They really bothered me. I worked hard to determine the difference between real people talking and my voices. After a while I was able to find a difference, although a disturbing one - the voices were more convincing to me than what real people actually said. The concreteness of my hallucinations' apparent reality always struck me immediately, before I ever heard what they said. Some of my other experiences are this way too: the conviction of their reality always strikes me before the actual experiences do. People have often told me I should just ignore them, but I haven't had that choice, by the time I can make the decision to ignore something I have already been frightened by it. After a while I decided I just wouldn't listen anymore. And after a short time the voices stopped. It only took a few days. When I reported this to the hospital staff, they seemed quite surprised. They didn't seem to think I should be able to do that, to just make my hallucinations go away. Still the voices bothered me enough that for years afterwards it startled me to hear anyone call my name when I didn't expect it, especially if someone I didn't know was calling someone else who happened to be named "Mike". For example, there was someone named Mike who worked on the night shift at the Safeway grocery store in Santa Cruz when I lived there, and it would frighten me when they would call his name on the public address system, asking him to come help at the cash register. posted by holy_of_holies |
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Interesting read, but offtopic. posted by knn |
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tozy: I drank this stuff and I felt lethargic and sedated. I thought I had got away with it. Then a psychologist walked in and said: "Oh, this is embarrassing, Richard, but we'd like you to fill in this test." The embarrassing thing was I had designed the test myself 10 years earlier. I looked at it and I could as soon have climbed Mount Everest. I felt a sense of depression and hopelessness but also an inner sense of restlessness and agitation. It was a combined wanting to do something and not being able to. Then she said: "You don't look too well - would you like some lunch?" I interpreted that as an order - and I've read since that people on neuroleptic drugs take statements as orders. So I said yes. Then she said: "We've a sandwich machine - will that do?" And I said yes because it was all I was up to saying. But I couldn't get the energy to decide what money to use. I just grabbed a coin and it was enough to get a Mars bar, which I was too ill to eat.
Did the drug wear off? I had to do these neuropsychological tests, and it was embarrassing, but I burst into tears halfway through. I started weeping uncontrollably, so much so that I was given an anticholinergic drug as an antidote and David took me out to get some fresh air. I suddenly felt I had to tell him about all the things I had ever felt guilty about. Then I went back and fell asleep for 3 hours. I woke up with a woozy hangover, like there was a glass wall between me and the world and that lasted for about a week after a single dose. The akathisia - the combined agitation and depression I felt - is experienced by 40 per cent of patients. It tends to go away after about a week, but imagine: you've had a crisis, you're admitted to hospital, you're hearing voices, then someone gives you a drug that makes you feel like that! But they are designed for sick people... About 40 per cent of patients have the same experience. That's the great unasked question of psychiatry: what was it like for you? Patients' experiences have been completely ignored. So are the antipsychotics effective? It's more complex. There's no doubt these drugs help some people by reducing the hallucinations and delusions. But there are really important caveats. First, something like 30 per cent of patients get benefits from the drugs - and we don't know which ones they will be. Secondly, these drugs have the most horrendous side effects. The old type of antipsychotic drugs produced what we call extrapyramidal effects, including Parkinsonian tremors, tardive dyskinesia (uncontrolled movements of the mouth and tongue) and akathisia. But surely you just give low doses? There is a scandal which I must get on my soapbox about - neuroleptic dosage. These drugs were discovered in the late 1940s and in wide use by the 1950s. Bizarrely, the first studies to look at the most appropriate dosage were not published until the 1990s. It turned out that low doses work at least as well as high doses. And for much of that period it wasn't uncommon to find patients on 80 to 90 milligrams of haloperidol. We now consider it irrational to give more than 10 milligrams and better to keep it at 5 milligrams a day, although you can still find patients on higher doses. We've got a massive amount of drug-induced illness - millions of people - and some of them have even been sent to early graves because of the increased risk from heart attacks and various blood disorders. All completely unnecessary. What about the new antipsychotics? It turned out the new drugs looked great compared to irrational doses of the old ones, but when compared to rational doses there was hardly any difference. The new drugs don't produce the old side effects, but there are a load of new ones: diabetes, sexual dysfunction, weight gain. I'm not saying drugs never work. If you talk to patients, some will tell you that drugs are a lifesaver and others that drugs have made their lives worse. Quite a few patients now on drugs would be better off without. Perhaps the best thing is to encourage patients to try them and let them decide... Psychiatry is crap and should be forbidden when I read stuff like that. They should lock away all psychiatrists who give patients drugs that make them suffer. And, I am sorry but: I don't freaking care whether people hear voices or not. Just the possibility that these drugs may torture is enough to forbid them. posted by knn |
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knn: Psychiatry is crap and should be forbidden when I read stuff like that. They should lock away all psychiatrists who give patients drugs that make them suffer. And, I am sorry but: I don't freaking care whether people hear voices or not. Just the possibility that these drugs may torture is enough to forbid them. If you had ever experienced psychotic symptoms (i.e. "voices") you would care. You would be begging for medication for relief of those symptoms. But since you apparently do not have a psychotic disorder you insist on broadcasting your lack of compassion and unscientific attitude toward the psychiatric profession. How surprising that someone who has never suffered something can insist that that suffering should not be relieved. Further proof that knn is a Hubbard-worshipping Scientologist with an antiscience agenda. [CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE] posted by holy_of_holies |
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The time now is 12 February 2012, 20:34 php B.B. |