»JK Rowling is a Pop-Culture Hitler! Discuss!«
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I'm not posting this rather opinionated and personal topic in my blog because I want everyone to be able to respond to me. This is what I think about the Harry Potter phenomenon on an individual level: totally normal and harmless. But this is what I think it represents on a larger scale: a prime example of the end of high standards of quality in art. I admit I have only read one of the books, the first one. However I have a bachelor's degree in literature so I do know at least to some degree whereof I speak, and let me tell you, that was the worst book I have ever read, not just because my expectations were high; they weren't. But it was really, really bad. To me what it represents is the triumph of a kind of "concept culture", where the superficial premise of the narrative is taken at face value and the reality of the execution is not really considered. Add to this Rowling's deplorable tendency to try to sell her books by intimating that she will kill off one of the characters! However I will try to make my next point with an analogy: the people who generate mass culture are like governments of a country, and the people to whom they sell their work are like citizens of that country. Now, when people point to the US society which claims to be free, the thing they tend to dismiss as worthless or repressive are our systems of government. The things they tend to praise are usually mass cultural phenomena. You all know the arguments against our government because I see them here all the time: US politicians lie, they start wars, they buy influence, etc. And the arguments for our mass culture are similarly simple: it's democratic, free enterprise, entertaining, etc. How does this relate to my analogy? Well consider that in the mass culture "government", once a person reaches a certain level of status and power, there is no accountability. With only small exagerration, someone like Rowling could publish her grocery list and people would buy it and praise it. This status is however impossible to attain in the real government of a country like the US (the way it should be!) But other countries are not like this, and we should not expect or coerce them to follow our lead. Still I would raise Rowling's Britain as a prime example of a nation with tons of people in positions of mass culture power who are never going to go away until they die. Not that I'm suggesting anything, fellow Potterhaters!  But still, take Princess Diana: she would have been Princess Diana until she died if she had lived to be 100. Or Elton John: he hasn't written a memorable song since the eighties, yet he still rules from his copyright throne. Now mind you we in America have plenty of these people of our own. But I think the difference is we don't obsess over them as much, neither loving or hating them as much as they do in other countries. Notice that although the new Star Wars films are quite popular here, people are able to separate the diligent efforts of the many (the actors, production designers, etc.) from the ego-trip of the one, namely Star Wars' emperor George Lucas. As disgusting as the throwaway, almost pornographic, culture of celebrity in America is, cult figures like Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, George Lucas, etc are normal objects of fantasy for people and will go away in their own sweet time. But I don't think it's possible for someone like Rowling to go away unless she goes all Howard Hughes on us, puts all her books in the public domain, and becomes a recluse.
Also, notice how people in Hollywood (the ultimate destination of all modern pop culture) and the entertainment industry in general behave. They behave like aristocrats and at worst, dictators! We were not supposed to have aristocrats in this country; that was part of "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." Now of course the people that wrote that were all rich white males, many of them slaveowners, but does that make it any less true? Not at all, because they - the founders - did not have the kind of mass appeal and popularity that someone like Rowling has. They could not write six books and become richer than the Monarch of England. They could not sue for $100 million dollars, as Rowling did, a newspaper which printed excerpts from her book too early for her liking. (I am not even going to go deeply into the fact that she rarely includes American characters in her books yet constantly markets her crap here and rails against "bigotry"!) What I detest about people like Rowling is the personal power they generate through mass culture, making themselves into dictators, all the while decrying the burdens of fame like Hitler in the Fuehrerbunker in Munich complaining how the Germans had let him down. So I don't really have a solution to the problems I raise. In typically American fashion I like to create more questions than I answer. Any thoughts? posted by holy_of_holies |
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| in-my-opinion.orgEntertainment & SportsEntertainment & Art (Assorted topics)JK Rowling is a Pop-Culture Hitler! Discuss! |
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 holy_of_holies: I'm not posting this rather opinionated and personal topic I suggest you do people googling harry potter and JK rowling will find it perhaps and it will get many angry comments. holy_of_holies: Harry Potter phenomenon on an individual level: totally normal and harmless. How can you say this? IMO → Commits suicide after learning Harry Potter Spoiler This may be a joke but the fact that it is believable at all is terrible, some people really are obsessive and very odd about that series of books. holy_of_holies: I admit I have only read one of the books, the first one. However I have a bachelor's degree in literature so I do know at least to some degree whereof I speak, and let me tell you, that was the worst book I have ever read, I remember loving that book and receiving it for christmas exactly when it came out and i thought it was great, you remember it is a book for children teens and so will not probably be a literary masterpiece. holy_of_holies: But still, take Princess Diana: she would have been Princess Diana until she died if she had lived to be 100. Or Elton John: he hasn't written a memorable song since the eighties, yet he still rules from his copyright throne. Now mind you we in America have plenty of these people of our own. But I think the difference is we don't obsess over them as much This is very untrue people obsess horribly over American icons people who live IN America, stop trying to include america is great ,britain sucks in everything...Me and Hungarian Kid at least can realise that the only two real competitors are Canada and Australia. holy_of_holies: They behave like aristocrats and at worst, dictators! We were not supposed to have aristocrats in this country I do not understand this? behave like aristocrats is fine untill you say we should not have them. So? there not real aristocrats, tell me who is forced to obey them? posted by Kupov |
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 holy I believe rather than attacking the book you are attacking the way this 'literature' has been commercialised. Remember, it was, is, a book for children. holy_of_holies: To me what it represents is the triumph of a kind of "concept culture", where the superficial premise of the narrative is taken at face value and the reality of the execution is not really considered. Baa baa black sheep, have you any wool? Yessir yessir, three bags full - one for the master, one for the dame, and one for the little boy who lives down the lane. Do you see anything profound in that? Boy asking sheep and sheep telling boy how he's going to distribute his wool. Simple story, yes? It teaches you the value of planning and sharing however. Similarly, sort of, HP books are to be taken at face value. There is no profound meaning, nothing larger than life about the book and the characters, if you ignore all the PR crap. It is simply an entertaining story, a humourous read at times. What really sucks of course, is the way that people have preyed upon its success and made some sort of pop-culture-icon out of Harry Potter, and a diva out of JK Rowling. Her behaviour is deplorable, but understandable I suppose, trying to make as much as she can out of her Cash Nandi.. holy_of_holies: This is what I think about the Harry Potter phenomenon on an individual level: totally normal and harmless. That is HP on ANY level. Except for the commercialisation and what it has achieved. I suppose this is one wheel that cannot be reversed. holy_of_holies: Add to this Rowling's deplorable tendency to try to sell her books by intimating that she will kill off one of the characters! holy_of_holies: the people who generate mass culture are like governments of a country, and the people to whom they sell their work are like citizens of that country. holy_of_holies: consider that in the mass culture "government", once a person reaches a certain level of status and power, there is no accountability. With only small exagerration, someone like Rowling could publish her grocery list and people would buy it and praise it. holy_of_holies: I don't think it's possible for someone like Rowling to go away unless she goes all Howard Hughes on us, puts all her books in the public domain, and becomes a recluse. holy_of_holies: Also, notice how people in Hollywood (the ultimate destination of all modern pop culture) and the entertainment industry in general behave. They behave like aristocrats and at worst, dictators holy_of_holies: the founders - did not have the kind of mass appeal and popularity that someone like Rowling has. They could not write six books and become richer than the Monarch of England. They could not sue for $100 million dollars, as Rowling did, a newspaper which printed excerpts from her book too early for her liking. OVER-COMMERCIALIZATION AND EXPLOITATION! JUDGEMENT IT BE UPON THE INFIDEL! Kupov: How can you say this? IMO → Commits suicide after learning Harry Potter Spoiler
This may be a joke but the fact that it is believable at all is terrible, some people really are obsessive and very odd about that series of books. Hmm, perhaps not an example on a similar level but what about all those geeks who lined up outside a theatre in costume waiting for Star Wars to be released, and later found out they were at the wrong theatre? holy_of_holies: What I detest about people like Rowling is the personal power they generate through mass culture, making themselves into dictators, all the while decrying the burdens of fame like Hitler in the Fuehrerbunker in Munich complaining how the Germans had let him down. This is but another tactic to rally more power, isn't it? You are made to feel guilty, because you have firstly deluded yourself into allegiance with such forces, and now they use that allegiance to make you feel 'guilty' and spur you on. Ok, enough of my remonstrating, let me come to the crux of your points:
holy_of_holies: In typically American fashion I like to create more questions than I answer. American? But, no, holy! Generally 'tis human! holy_of_holies: So I don't really have a solution to the problems I raise. You notice neither do I? 
There can exist no such solution on a mass scale, as a revolution on a grass-root basis is impossible unless instigated by each person herself/himself choosing to erase social-conditioning and media-deluding, and starting anew. 
posted by ryder |
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Kupov: holy_of_holies: I'm not posting this rather opinionated and personal topic I suggest you do people googling harry potter and JK rowling will find it perhaps and it will get many angry comments. Kupov you've been doing too much knn, get into rehab now! Kupov: IMO → Commits suicide after learning Harry Potter Spoiler
This may be a joke but the fact that it is believable at all is terrible, some people really are obsessive and very odd about that series of books. Kupov consider that there may be individuals like for every series, only that Harry Potter has been hyped enough for us to hear about it. It all depends on the human and his level of obsession, don't blame any series or phenomenon. Kupov: remember it is a book for children teens and so will not probably be a literary masterpiece. 
I like that word 'probably' there. "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time" by Mark Haddon is children's literature and can definitely appeal to adults too, and is, in my opinion, quite a piece indeed. Kupov: stop trying to include america is great ,britain sucks in everything Well that is his opinion, and I think it's alright so long as he doesn't make it a point to shove it down everyone's throat, and to make EVERY debate about America vs. Britain, or America vs. Rest Of the World. Bad cricket, eh. It should not be any country vs. any country; they are different countries for that very reason that they are different and cannot and should not be compared. Kupov: I do not understand this? behave like aristocrats is fine untill you say we should not have them. So? there not real aristocrats, tell me who is forced to obey them? No one has to obey them... except the very many fans obsessed with every detail of their lives, encouraged by their wayward lives to follow similar ideas. Entertainment stars are plagued by the unique pressures of their industry and should not be made superior icons of. holy's point, I suppose, is that it is sad to waste idolization on such poor examples (yes, even if the particular person has done very many great things) instead of providing support to a government that tries to act the right way in a no-win situation. posted by ryder |
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 ryder: "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time" I have read this book and it was fantastic i have actually quoted from it several times in posts here ryder: except the very many fans obsessed with every detail of their lives, encouraged by their wayward lives to follow similar ideas Completely different, are those people whipped for not following them? no unless you think of being social outcasts as whipped. ryder: Well that is his opinion, and I think it's alright so long as he doesn't make it a point to shove it down everyone's throat, I do not think i would like it if he was continuously addresing Canada that way. ryder: Kupov you've been doing too much knn, get into rehab now! Doing too much knn? 
posted by Kupov |
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Kupov: Completely different, are those people whipped for not following them? Aristocrats have people whipped for not following them? Kupov: no unless you think of being social outcasts as whipped. how are they social outcasts? I find too many fan clubs for every possible media icon. Kupov: I do not think i would like it if he was continuously addresing Canada that way. True, true, but remember I said ryder: Well that is his opinion, and I think it's alright so long as he doesn't make it a point to shove it down everyone's throat That just happens to irritate everyone involved, especially members of the country he happens to be talking about, and generally does not lead to any constructive criticism or discussion. You'd yell back at me if I told you Canada sucked, but you'd say "one man's meat..." if I told you what I disagreed about with Canada and refused to give in to any arguments you put forth supporting your country. Discussion and biased flaming are two different things, especially the latter involving personal attacks. Oh well, whatever. Kupov: Doing too much knn? ngaa... posted by ryder |
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ryder: Aristocrats have people whipped for not following them? They can. ryder: how are they social outcasts? Not very often but sometimes you can be, picked on for not liking rap or britanny spears etc. ryder: ngaa...
posted by Kupov |
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Kupov: ryder: Aristocrats have people whipped for not following them? They can. Not unless these people choose to follow them in the first place and then they 'disobey' or whatever. Dictators in a country, on the other hand.. Minor points, anyhow. I suppose the point is that they exert a superior influence over the mob compared to an organised government, although the mob may profess faith in 'democracy'. posted by ryder |
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 admittedly, i tried to read the entire thread before i replied, i really did, but i just couldnt get through it, no offence to any of you at all but...whatever happened to the days where we could just read a damn book and enjoy it without having to compare it to hitler or find ways of seeding out a theory in the work that supports some other political or worldly evil. i haven't read any of the books but judging from the response i can say that the books are a great thing, j.k. rowling is a great thing and anything that gets my students away from junk on the tv/video games/etc and actually sit down and READ something is a wonderful thing. why must we dissect everything and analyze it just to find fault in it when its truly doing something good for people? just enjoy it and not suspect theres a hidden meaning behind it... posted by gkiss |
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and yeah that whole thing about it have pagan undertones and including concepts of witchcraft and all that? you know how many parents came up to my host teacher and i saying we would rather our kid not read the book (not in class, but in general) because it "glorifies sorcery and..." blah blah...that really pissed me off...obviously they cannot see the bigger picture that their child is actually reading something they enjoy and learning loads at the same time...JUST READ THE DAMN BOOK AND ENJOY IT shit...why is that so hard to do? posted by gkiss |
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gkiss: many parents came up to my host teacher and i saying we would rather our kid not read the book (not in class, but in general) because it "glorifies sorcery and..." blah blah...that really pissed me off... Maybe you could explain further at IMO → Which of the following sources of media are satanic? Ha ha gkiss you've sort of hit the nail on the head. See, it's just a book that's encouraged kids to read more. But why do they have to get all fanatic about it? It IS just a book? You can be fanatically for or against it. And JK Rowling has exploited all the attention this has brought her. It's the profiteering concept and the blowing-out-of-proportion concept in all the hype that holy's indignant with I suppose. I can only suppose of course, he hasn't posted here later beyond that.
And also I think it has something to do with the fact that people generally have some motive for designing the plot that they do, and making it twist, and developing a character in a particular manner. It isn't ALL meaningless, there's something behind it, and we can all read lightly and get entertained or we can squish our brains and try to 'get' the author. posted by ryder |
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EXACTLY... posted by gkiss |
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ryder: It isn't ALL meaningless, there's something behind it, and we can all read lightly and get entertained or we can squish our brains and try to 'get' the author. Or we can save our brains with this simple equastion witchcraft+non Christian author=Evil ______________________________ witchcraft+Christian author=perfectly acceptable Except when the Christian author is not a real Christian which is a fact decided long after they are dead by people like stinkz...any questions? posted by Kupov |
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Kupov: any questions? Uh yeah what's an equastion? Kupov: witchcradt+Christian author=perfectly acceptable Oops am I wrong in thinking JK Rowling is a Christian? Because Harry Potter seems to be getting attacked too.
posted by ryder |
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gkiss: i haven't read any of the books but judging from the response i can say that the books are a great thing, j.k. rowling is a great thing Yes it must be grand to look from the outside at my country in the grips of a foreign aristocracy and say, yes, this is a great thing. [CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE] posted by holy_of_holies |
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