»Old Testament relevant for Christians? Eating shellfish OK?«

So I ran into this topic on a forum about the movie Saved!...

In Leviticus (a book of the Christian Bible), God tells people that homosexuality is an abomination. However, he also tells people that eating shellfish is an abomination. So why don't Christians protest the eating of crawfish as strongly as they protest homosexuality?

posted by Tiefling

in-my-opinion.org -> Religion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolves -> Religious & Philosophical Topics -> Old Testament relevant for Christians? Eating shellfish OK?

Well cus Nazis don't mind hating people but they hate disregarding food. I mean in WW2 Germany was very low on food.
I guess that would go for anyone in starvation or desperation for food, screw religion, I'm hungry. Taking ones life to eat while trapped under snow, things like this can eventually make the religion disregard such things
.

So maybe there will be one day a spin off religion of Christianity that allows homosexuals.

And you can't take the Bible word for word. People were as biased back then as they are now.

posted by hungarian kid

Weiter, weiter ins Verderben!
Wir müssen leben bis wir sterben!

Old Testament

Because it's old testament, and all old rules have been abolished. Only some rules stay that have been reassured by early CHRISTIAN councils:

•	no homo sex

•	no blood eating

•	cutting off penis foreskin is not needed

•	basically the so called "ten commandments" stay in power, except the Saturday worship

posted by knn

ebooks-download.com

Not to abolish

knn:

Only some rules stay that have been reassured by early CHRISTIAN councils:

Where in the Bible are those rules reinforced? And why does the Old Testament no longer apply? Jesus said he did not come to abolish the Old Testament.

Matthew 5:17-18:

Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.

posted by Tiefling

It's all there

Quote:

Where in the Bible are those rules reinforced

Acts 15:29
1 Corinthians 7:19
etc...
You should really read some Jehova's witnesses stuff cause they explain it quite good.

Quote:

And why does the Old Testament no longer apply?

Of course not, otherwise women would have to cover their hair and men would have to get circumsized and nobody could eat ... shellfish.

Quote:

Jesus said he did not come to abolish the Old Testament.

He came to fulfill it - and that's the tricky part: Because part of the old testament was the prophecy that the old bond (the Mosaic bond = ten commandments, circumcision etc) will be replaced by The One (Neo so to speak) who will introduce a new bond. The new bond basically consists of love others like you love yourself + Love god more than yourself + some things mentioned by Paulus (= no blood intake, no homosexuality etc)

posted by knn

Re: Shellfish and Homosexuality

Tiefling:

However, he also tells people that eating shellfish is an abomination. So why don't Christians protest the eating of crawfish as strongly as they protest homosexuality?

Maybe it is because Jesus said:

'' Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. ''

Matt 15;11

Also, according to the bible Jesus ate and drank very much.

And the jews called him a drunk and a glutton

posted by Pawnatron

The Chief of this forum will call me a genius, move me to Moscow, and give me a
million bucks hard currency

Where's that passage?

Where does it say that eating shellfish is wrong?

posted by fatpie42

Leviticus

Lev 11:10-12:

11:10
And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

11:11
They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

11:12
Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

posted by Tiefling

Oh i see!

You are talking about Kosher food. In Acts and also in the passage Pawnatron quotes there are parts of the new testament which claim that those rules are no longer so important. Apparently this does not mean that sexual laws are no longer important. Circumscision was another thing considered to be unimportant for non-jews.

Does this answer the question?

posted by fatpie42

Body modification in the name of the religion

Quote:

Circumscision was another thing considered to be unimportant for non-jews.

Circumcision was a huge discussion amongst the first Jesus followers.

Paulus said it is not needed (= we are circumsized spiritually) while the hardcore Jesus people insisted that Jesus started just another Jewish sect and therefore anybody must be circumsized.

You know the history and who has won: The Paulinists. Why? Tell a non-Jew that in order to join the new religion he has to cut off a piece of his penis. Evil evil

posted by knn

Paul said

that he wished the people who insisted on circumciscion for non-jews would castrate themselves.

It's still in the Bible but it is often changed to "mutilate themselves" or "cut the whole thing off". Anything rather than use the word castrate.

posted by fatpie42

So back to the original question. Why did Jesus decide shellfish was no longer an abomination? Did he conclude that God was just being picky when Leviticus was written?

If anybody other than Jesus had stated that the laws of the Old Testament no longer applied, that person would have been branded a heretic. But when Jesus said, "Oops, ignore that bit about food, you can eat whatever you want now. God changed his mind," everyone responded with "Amen."

The part that is particularly interesting is that Jesus didn't write this down himself. It was his followers that wrote it down.

posted by Tiefling

Quote:

So back to the original question. Why did Jesus decide shellfish was no longer an abomination?

Haven't I answered this already in my above post? Because the old bond was nullified.

posted by knn

Well you expressed what happened (the bond was revisited), but not why it happened. Why was the new bond established? Why did the new bond encompass many, but not all, of the rules? And which ones were encompassed? Are these clearly enumerated in the New Testament, as they were in the Old?

posted by Tiefling

Christian Laws

Quote:

Well you expressed what happened (the bond was revisited), but not why it happened

Why did god say to Adam that he may eat peaches but not certain apples? Maybe god wants to test us? There is no answer in the bible why pork is forbidden or why women shall cover their hair.

Quote:

Why did the new bond encompass many, but not all, of the rules? And which ones were encompassed?

Actually it was more like: "All rules are gone." Then somebody asked "Hey, wait a sec, does it mean we can sex around as we wish?", so Paul said, "Nope, no foolin' around and, oh, no pray to other gods". So actually Paul influenced a lot.

Then a big split took place (probably the biggest of all inner-Church splits): The Christians that wanted circumcision and the others that didn't want it. Who has won is history.

Quote:

Are these clearly enumerated in the New Testament, as they were in the Old?

No, but they are only a few anyway.

•	No circumcision needed

•	Any food allowed, except drinking blood

•	No homosex, No whoring

•	Love others like yourself: No stealing, no murdering etc.

•	No pray to other gods

All the huge rest is Church tradition (= no law of Jesus, but Church tradition): No meat on Fridays, Christmas, ...

The rules in the old testament were much more like a law: Pages of "If somebody does X then you shall Y"

posted by knn

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