In-My-Opinion.org

»Evolution in the Bible, says Vatican«







The Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture, said the Genesis description of how God created the universe and Darwin's theory of evolution were "perfectly compatible" if the Bible were read correctly.

His statement was a clear attack on creationist campaigners in the US, who see evolution and the Genesis account as mutually exclusive.

"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said the real message in Genesis was that "the universe didn't make itself and had a creator".

This idea was part of theology, Cardinal Poupard emphasised, while the precise details of how creation and the development of the species came about belonged to a different realm - science. Cardinal Poupard said that it was important for Catholic believers to know how science saw things so as to "understand things better".







posted by ryder
  All your base are belong to us


in-my-opinion.org -> Religion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolves -> Religious & Philosophical Topics -> Evolution in the Bible, says Vatican



I don't think this argument will ever end Set your George Michael free

posted by a
  



What argument? The Roman Catholic Church has never supported creation science!

posted by fatpie42
  

Think Again, fatpie42



fatpie42:
What argument? The Roman Catholic Church has never supported creation science!

A deep rift has opened within the Catholic church over the theory of evolution and its compatibility with the Christian faith.

The Vatican’s chief astronomer, George Coyne, has rebuffed controversial comments made by Cardinal Christoph Schönborn in The New York Times on 7 July that evolution is incompatible with a belief in God.

“The waters have again been darkened” writes Coyne in the latest issue of the UK Catholic weekly, The Tablet. His article follows another flare-up in the debate, when US president George W Bush commented on Monday that schools should teach children about “intelligent design”. Proponents of this idea believe that science can be used to find evidence of a creator’s design in nature.

"I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," Bush said. "You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes."

In his article, Schönborn dismissed as “rather vague and unimportant” a statement made by Pope John Paul II in 1996 which seemed to indicate the church’s acceptance of evolution. “Any system of thought that denies or seeks to explain away the overwhelming evidence for design in biology is ideology, not science,” Schönborn wrote.

But Coyne, a Jesuit priest from the US, slammed these comments. He writes that the “nagging fear” that a universe explained by scientific concepts “escapes God’s dominion” is “groundless”.

He calls for an extensive dialogue. “But we should not close off the dialogue and darken the already murky waters by fearing that God will be abandoned if we embrace the best of modern science,” he urges.




posted by MindSlave
  "Rasta don't work for no CIA..."
-Bob Marley



h_o_h, all your quote states for certain is that a particular cardinal said that there is design in biology:
Quote:
“Any system of thought that denies or seeks to explain away the overwhelming evidence for design in biology is ideology, not science,” Schönborn wrote.

The pope's statement apparently embraced evolution:
Quote:
a statement made by Pope John Paul II in 1996 which seemed to indicate the church’s acceptance of evolution.

And the Vatican's chief astronomer said that a universe governed by scientific principles is still within the domain of a Creator:
Quote:
But Coyne, a Jesuit priest from the US, slammed these comments. He writes that the “nagging fear” that a universe explained by scientific concepts “escapes God’s dominion” is “groundless”.



posted by Tiefling
  



Took the words out of my mouth Tiefling. Mindslave, why have you just quoted an article which completely agrees with me?

posted by fatpie42
  

The following post has been deemed OFFTOPIC. Do not answer it and do not quote from it or from parts of it. The reporter (knn) said: "Stop attaching offtopic pics"



fatpie42:
What argument? The Roman Catholic Church has never supported creation science!

A deep rift has opened within the Catholic church over the theory of evolution and its compatibility with the Christian faith.


fatpie42:
Mindslave, why have you just quoted an article which completely agrees with me?

So you say that an article claiming that there is a "deep rift...within the Catholic Church" about evolution completely agrees with you, even though you previously implied that there was no support within the Catholic Church for creationism? Really, Englishman, I should not have to explain every little detail of the logic of my posts to you just because you spend all your time watching »The Matrix« and Homestar Runner instead of learning about the issues. There is clearly plenty of disagreement within the Catholic Church about the official position of that church on evolution, therefore it is invalid to claim that the church "has never supported creation science!"
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posted by MindSlave
  



Quote:
A deep rift has opened within the Catholic church over the theory of evolution and its compatibility with the Christian faith.

I'm not sure why a statement from a single cardinal that is somewhat contrary to the statement by the Pope constitutes a "deep rift."
h_o_h:
Really, Englishman, I should not have to explain every little detail of the logic of my posts to you just because you spend all your time watching »The Matrix« and Homestar Runner instead of learning about the issues.

Personal attacks aren't necessary.

Now, at the risk of being pedantic (though I assure you, it's not my intention), I don't think we can say that the Catholic Church has always supported evolution. Catholicism existed long before Darwin did. So when was it that the Catholic Church started supporting evolution?


posted by Tiefling
  



Tiefling:
I'm not sure why a statement from a single cardinal that is somewhat contrary to the statement by the Pope constitutes a "deep rift."

Now, at the risk of being pedantic, cardinals are the second highest in the Catholic hierarchy, directly below the Catholic pope. I think statements by a single cardinal can very well portray a rift.


posted by knn



Mindslave's post
The Vatican’s chief astronomer, George Coyne, has rebuffed controversial comments made by Cardinal Christoph Schönborn in The New York Times on 7 July that evolution is incompatible with a belief in God.


Oh so the vatican has obviously decided to accept creationism. Consider me convinced.

Obviously this must be the overwhelming evidence you wanted me to look at since the rest of the article spoke almost entirely about George W. Bush and other non-Roman-Catholics.

In one paragraph it mentioned the guy who, as can be seen above, has been rebuffed by at least one of his superiors.


posted by fatpie42
  "The beauty of the Superman came to me as a shadow. What are the gods to me now!"



fatpie42:
Obviously this must be the overwhelming evidence you wanted me to look at since the rest of the article spoke almost entirely about George W. Bush and other non-Roman-Catholics.

Where did I say there was "overwhelming evidence?" I never said that! There you have blatantly misrepresented my position in this discussion!
fatpie42:
In one paragraph it mentioned the guy who, as can be seen above, has been rebuffed by at least one of his superiors.

fatpie42, do you mean to tell me that you studied religion at a collegiate level and you are willing to believe that the chief astronomer of the Vatican is the "superior" of the Archbishop of Vienna, who was in the conclave that elected the most recent pope, and who was himself a candidate for pope? I didn't even know they had a "chief astronomer," but I damn sure knew about that conclave. Cardinal Schonborn is obviously the astronomer's superior in church hierarchy, whatever way you look at it.

I maintain that the Roman Catholic Church has taken an ambiguous position on the matter of evolution almost from the start of modern biology. Here is a quote from Pope Pius XII's 1950 statement Humani Generis , the statement that established the official church position on evolution:
The teaching authority of the church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter– for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. [emphasis added]


Now, I ask in good faith, how many evolutionary biologists would be willing to hold with the statement that the the human soul is "immediately created by God?" That should be an objective measure of how much the Vatican agrees with the mainstream scientific community on the issue of creation.


posted by MindSlave
  



MindSlave:
Now, I ask in good faith, how many evolutionary biologists would be willing to hold with the statement that the the human soul is "immediately created by God?" That should be an objective measure of how much the Vatican agrees with the mainstream scientific community on the issue of creation.

Biology does not deal with souls, thus the pope does not contradict it.


posted by knn
  



knn:
Biology does not deal with souls

Of course it does; what do you think neuroscience is? You obviously have never read any Francis Crick!
Public perceptions of science and the questions that scientists are willing to ask are strongly influenced by religion. Crick has discussed the relationship between science and religion in his earlier book What Mad Pursuit. Crick's view of this relationship is that religions can be wrong about scientific matters, and that part of what science does is to confront the errors that exist within religious traditions. For example, the idea of a mechanism for the evolution of life by natural selection conflicts with some views on creation of life by divine intervention. Crick's subtitle for The Astonishing Hypothesis is The Scientific Search For The Soul . Crick argues that traditional conceptualizations of the soul as a non-material being must be replaced by a materialistic understanding of how the brain produces mind. The publicity generated by opposition to scientific ideas such as natural selection or the scientific study of the soul brings such topics into more widespread debate.




posted by MindSlave
  



MindSlave:
Of course it does; what do you think neuroscience is? You obviously have never read any Francis Crick!

Neurology does NOT DEAL with souls in a religious sense. You are posting like you accuse Tiefling to post.


posted by knn
  

The following post has been deemed OFFTOPIC. Do not answer it and do not quote from it or from parts of it. The reporter (knn) said: "Offtopic"



knn:
MindSlave:
Of course it does; what do you think neuroscience is? You obviously have never read any Francis Crick!

Neurology does NOT DEAL with souls in a religious sense. You are posting like you accuse Tiefling to post.

No, I always say Tiefling misrepresents what I say to gain the upper hand in debates; all I did here was post proof that your statement is incorrect by pointing out that at least one famous evolutionary biologist, Francis Crick, has argued scientifically against the religious concept of a soul. Neuroscience deals with the religious dogma of the soul in the same way that evolutionary biology deals with special creation; both attempt to eliminate the possibility of the existence of the religious dogma to which they stand in opposition.

If there is some kind of spirit or soul that inhabits human bodies and that has nothing to do with the brain, there is absolutely zero scientific evidence that it exists. I would be more likely to believe in the Biblical seven-day special creation than I would in the soul. But this you may not agree with, knn, since you have in the past argued that mental illness is caused by "demons."


posted by MindSlave
  



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