»The Importance of Math and Science in General Education«
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 knn: Laraimaem: I try to explain that the logic learned through mathmatics and the problem solving skills obtained through science are invaluble tools for the rest of life. Sometimes they buy it, most times they do not. THEY ARE RIGHT. LOL, Laraimaem, you just got KNN'ed! KNN, you are the most contrarian admin on the web. posted by MindSlave |
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| in-my-opinion.orgMiscAnything that doesn't fit in any other categoryThe Importance of Math and Science in General Education |
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 MindSlave: KNN, you are the most contrarian admin on the web. Start a new topic, please posted by knn |
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 knn: Nothing teaches you better logic stuff than programming. I'm a programmer, and I strongly disagree with this statement. Programming does not teach you logic; you have to understand logic to program. Quite a few programmers don't understand this. The result? Bad programmers! posted by Tiefling |
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Tiefling: Quite a few programmers don't understand this. The result? Bad programmers! But how does your statement disagree with mine? I never claimed anything that would oppose your statement. Why are you perverting my words? If someone doesn't understand math (= how to calculate something) the result will be bad math. How does that contradict the statement "Nothing teaches logic better than math"? You simply cannot state "I disagree. I know some persons who cannot count and their results suck" 
posted by knn |
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The kids are right in that they will probably never solve another physics problem if they are going to be anything other than a physicist. However, for having taken the class, and learned to solve the problems their brains are more "fit" or as we say, they have become more educated. Thus, they are able to better preform what ever intellectual task they decide to do in the future be it scientific or not. This is why math/science is part of a general education. And to be perfectly clear, I am speaking of basic math, chemistry, and physics, learned in high school and first year college, not any advanced classes. posted by Laraimaem |
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Laraimaem: However, for having taken the class, and learned to solve the problems their brains are more "fit" or as we say, they have become more educated. But this would be valid in any of the cases that I have listed. Moreover in "my" cases they would be not only "fit" but also "fit in real life situations". Laraimaem: learned in high school and first year college What is a high school? What is a college? posted by knn |
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The problem with the way science is taught is that it is presented as something separate from reality. Science is the study of REALITY. Technology is the manipulation of REALITY. Building this at home was better than a month of science classes. 
 psikeyhackr posted by psikeyhackr |
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psikeyhackr: The problem with the way science is taught is that it is presented as something separate from reality. Science is the study of REALITY. Technology is the manipulation of REALITY. Building this at home was better than a month of science classes. Exactly, exactly. And usually (especially at the university) mathematics is completely separated from reality. The professors make "championships" about who can make calculation with the least amount of examples. posted by knn |
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 knn: What is a high school? What is a college? High school is grades 9-12. The "13th grade (it's not called that)" is the freshman year of university. So high school is the 4 years before the freshman year of university. And college=university. My geometry teacher said that doing math is like doing mental gymnastics, you probably will never use it, but it works areas of your brain which, without math, would probably be left untouched. knn: economics
• stock market • how to survive in the jungle/ on high seas/ in the desert / with little money • how to close deals • which administrative body is for what and how to apply correctly for stuff you need • how to repair a car • how to convince others • how to stay out of affairs as a executive/ politician/ leader • tips how to get into show business • tricks how others can cheat you • education about longevity/ vitamins/ hormones • ... Most of this stuff is practical stuff that you learn from others, just memorization. And yes, you would exercise your brain learning these subjects too, like you would most things. But math focuses on certain areas of your brain that would normally be left untouched like i said, because it requires both memorization and application in terms of numbers , logic, etc. It's just good to balance out with all the literature and english going on. Like using your opposite hand every once in awhile, or walking around blind to tune your hearing. I used to not like math, but due to this current trend of math-hating-english-loving people, I kinda like math now. I'm neutral. It's just frustrating when I don't get it, and the teacher doesn't go over it or she doesn't make sense. posted by sangu |
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sangu: Most of this stuff is practical stuff that you learn from others, just memorization. What? 
Nothing of it is memorization. Most of math is memorization. Nearly nothing about math has to do with thinking. It's merely application of what others have thought through already. sangu: My geometry teacher said that doing math is like doing mental gymnastics, you probably will never use it, Yup, brain masturbation. Most of it is completely useless, except for yourself. My former math teacher said that "Math was invented because humans were too lazy to think"... and I think that is true. Most of real world math is putting numbers into formulas that others have "invented". posted by knn |
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Knn: What?
Nothing of it is memorization. Most of math is memorization. Nearly nothing about math has to do with thinking. It's merely application of what others have thought through already. Knn, I'm sorry that your experience with math was one that you had to memeorize everything. It is not supposed to be about that, it should require thinking. Yes, there are going to be somethings you will have to memorize, but that is true of anything one learns. The real value of mathmatics comes from learning the application, not th memorization. The entire point of my post was about math and science as PART of a general education, not one's entire education. Knn: My former math teacher said that "Math was invented because humans were too lazy to think"... and I think that is true. Most of real world math is putting numbers into formulas that others have "invented". This is really a rather unfortunate quote. Math should never be about the "plug and chug" method! So many students do try to just memorize, and they are the ones that seem to be unsuccesful. They don't study the concepts, so they are unable to apply them to different situations. From any math or science class one should take out of it the problem solving skills and the critical thinkinking skills requierd to do math and science. In real life you can always find ways to employ problem solving skills. Be it how to apply to university, how to fix a broken pipe in your house, to how to get a date. This is why I think math and science is important as part of a general education. posted by Laraimaem |
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knn: What?
Nothing of it is memorization. I was thinking: people tell you, or you read about it, you memorize the info, and apply it to real life. Math is memorization, yes, then there's the second part-- applying it, but most of it isn't applied to real life...unless you have a job that really requires math. So the rest of the math is really simply working your brain, i don't mind too much. But what's really useless, to me, is science (most of it anyway, especially biology). But that's another topic. posted by sangu |
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 sangu: Math is memorization, yes, then there's the second part-- applying it, but most of it isn't applied to real life...unless you have a job that really requires math. Math is basically memorization of formulas. My list of subject is not. posted by knn |
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you don't have to memorize formulas if you can derive them, but then again to do that you might have to be good at math and/or problem solving. You can hate on math, I don't mind, it's not my favorite either all of the time. On the indiviual level it may not matter a whole lot, but on a bigger scale, someone has to learn math or we never progress, and since we are in the supposed digital age, one would think math could be of some use if you were capable of learning it and wanted to apply it. However, if you want to do something else, I can see the point of why do you need math if you aren't going to need to apply it later on. BTW, the lottery is a tax on the mathematically retarded. posted by hexediter |
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hexediter: you don't have to memorize formulas if you can derive them Noone derives formulas (except very easy formulas). Except mathematicians. hexediter: but on a bigger scale, someone has to learn math or we never progress Very true. But not in school. hexediter: I can see the point of why do you need math if you aren't going to need to apply it later on. Yes, if we lived 200 years ago, then probably math was the best way to train logic. But now we have much better ways. posted by knn |
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The time now is 12 February 2012, 20:46 php B.B. |