In-My-Opinion.org

»The Reason I Rant Against Antipsychiatry«







Telling a mentally ill person there is no such thing as mental illness is like telling a black person there is no racism. Thus antipsychiatry guru Thomas Szasz is as bad as the worst white supremacist out there, but he's just picked a different target. Of course some people who are not mentally ill are going to love the idea that mental illness is not a real disease with real symptoms; it lets them off the hook of their societal responsibility to people who have trouble caring for themselves. I tried to get on disability assistance right after my first hospitalization and the lawyer told me it was almost impossible to do for mental illness. Yet I was blatantly unable to do anything for myself except sit staring at a wall because [1] I was in a post-psychotic depression; and [2] the injection I was given in an underfunded public detention center made me into a zombie for several months. So my parents footed my bills for a while until I could go to work. If my parents had not been able to do that, I would have been not only mentally ill and overmedicated, but in a homeless shelter as well.

Truth be told, I might even go so far as to call myself an antipsychiatry sympathizer, but this nonsense about "the myth of mental illness" (the title of Szasz's most famous book) is just a hateful ideology. It reminds me of the way the military treated people like my grandfather after he came home from WWII with what was then known as "shell shock" and is now recognized as the debilitating mental illness post-traumatic stress disorder. The fact that people like Szasz manage to attract followers who do things like vandalize Wikipedia articles on his enemies (as IMO user Francesca Allan did) is no mystery to me: it's the same thing as the rich white kids I grew up who thought the only difference between the races in America was that white people worked harder. Total bunk. And what is in it for the gurus like Szasz? Well for one thing, how many psychoanalysts do you know that get to hang out with movie stars? (see below)

Ruthless ambition, thy name is Szasz! Who knows Francesca, maybe one day you too can join the antipsychiatry elite and dine with stars when you publish your famous novel or whatever! In the meantime, there are plenty of people to misinform on the Web by spreading your gospel of prejudice and exclusion, while the rest of us normal people who happen to have illnesses just live day to day, going to work like I did today and trying to survive.


[CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE]


posted by MindSlave
  "Rasta don't work for no CIA..."
-Bob Marley

in-my-opinion.org -> Politics -> Psychiatry and Anti-Psychiatry -> The Reason I Rant Against Antipsychiatry



h_o_h:
Telling a mentally ill person there is no such thing as mental illness is like telling a black person there is no racism.

But a person who doesn't believe in mental illness wouldn't believe that there are mentally ill people; and would thus claim it is impossible to tell a mentally ill person that there is no mental illness.

Semantics, I know, but more to the point, it's point of view.

Wouldn't a more appropriate analogy be, "It's like telling Santa Claus that there is no Santa Claus." ?


posted by Tiefling
  



The field of anti-psychiatry is huge and we have a lot of disagreement within it. I believe there's such a thing as mental illness and I also believe that most of my activist colleagues do as well. The issue is: what is the nature of that illness? Based on everything I've experienced, read, heard and seen, I believe mental illness is not neurobiological but rather emotional. This is borne out by research which shows, for example, that mental illnesses are better treated with counselling than with drugs. In part, it's a terminology issue. "Mental" refers to the mind and the mind doesn't exist independently of the brain therefore the mind can't be diseased.

posted by Francesca Allan
  



And, Holy, I wouldn't be caught dead cavorting with a bunch of scientologists and/or movie stars.

posted by Francesca Allan
  

Tilting at Windmills



Francesca Allan:
Based on everything I've experienced, read, heard and seen, I believe mental illness is not neurobiological but rather emotional. This is borne out by research which shows, for example, that mental illnesses are better treated with counselling than with drugs.

Well that dumb. That's like saying, "Blood isn't crimson, it's scarlet." What do you think emotions are, ghosts? Or magic powers? Emotions are neurobiological processes occurring in the nervous organ known as the brain.
You are getting your information about mental illness second-hand, through political activist leaders like Thomas Szasz and R.D. Laing. Unless your name is followed by an "M.D." or "Ph.D." you are not qualified to question the scientific establishment like Szasz and Laing do. No reputable physician or scientist will ever take you seriously without scientific or medical credentials; I can tell you this first-hand, having grown up in the scientific community and having refused to participate in upper-level science classes because I found them insulting. Thus no physician or scientist takes my ideas on science seriously now, nor will they ever.
Let me put it to you this way, dear: my theory of mammalian evolution from dinosaurs is more likely to become widely accepted in the scientific and political circles that determine national policy than is the idea that major mental illness is better treated by counselling than medication. So really you are tilting at windmills, Francesca. Why are you doing this? I can tell you why. You had bad experiences with psychiatry and are now prosecuting an information vendetta, which is really a failed endeavor from the start, as you should have gleaned from the whole IMO experiment.
Get back to me when you start stockpiling weapons or making credible threats. That's a language I speak fluently.
Francesca Allan:
In part, it's a terminology issue.

No, it's all a terminology issue. You don't like the idea that a person who is hallucinating voices or slitting their wrists has an "illness." You prefer "emotional crisis." But why should a person in such a desparate situation that they cannot make rational choices for themselves be forceably held or medicated until their condition stabilizes?
Your fringe movement will answer with cries of "Unethical, immoral, illegal." What are ethics, morals, laws, compared to the machinery of a nation-state? Nations are born by force, and they die by force. The whole North American/European hegemony is currently dying by force from within, and I welcome it. The strong, who know how to operate the system, will survive. The weak (i.e. whiny protesters, political activists, fringe elements) will fall. And remember: the established order is united by privilege, while all the fringe groups like, for instance, antipsychiatry, Scientology, and psychoanalysis, just in the area of mental health, are disunited and at odds with each other.

In the Bible maybe David kills Goliath with a stone and a slingshot, but in the real world Goliath looks for the guy holding the slingshot and tears him a new asshole.

As far as I can tell, the whole antipsychiatry movement is an outgrowth of 1960's counterculture, when the American left was blowing its mind on pot and acid and convincing itself it was also ending the Vietnam War and creating peace on Earth, while the Viet Cong went about their violent business and ejected the American presence from the southern half of their country, thus ending the Vietnam war. Just because you like to pretend psychiatrists are intimidated by you, or that you are ending psychiatry, doesn't mean that you are doing so. And this time I don't see any Viet Cong that's going to end by force the thing you hate. You'll have to do it yourself, and I guarantee you the Canadian government has just as many protocols for dealing with insurgents as the US government does.
Francesca Allan:
And, Holy, I wouldn't be caught dead cavorting with a bunch of scientologists and/or movie stars

That's good because they don't want to hang out with you either. Officers are never supposed to fraternize with the enlisted soldiers under their command. That military metaphor brings up an interesting point: if you armed a bunch of mentally ill people (including psychopaths, they're mentally ill too) and put them on an island with a bunch of armed antipsychiatry activists, who do you think would win? The bloodthirsty rapists and serial killers, along with some normal mentally ill people, or the kind of people who organize protest marches and their tweedy academic gurus? White laugh
And don't call me Holy. Holy got taken out by some bad shit. Now you're talking to MindSlave.


[CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE]


posted by MindSlave
  

Re: Tilting at Windmills



MindSlave:
Francesca Allan:
Based on everything I've experienced, read, heard and seen, I believe mental illness is not neurobiological but rather emotional. This is borne out by research which shows, for example, that mental illnesses are better treated with counselling than with drugs.

Well that dumb. That's like saying, "Blood isn't crimson, it's scarlet." What do you think emotions are, ghosts? Or magic powers? Emotions are neurobiological processes occurring in the nervous organ known as the brain.

Of course all human experience and emotion is reflected in neurochemicals. But that's not the same thing as saying that the neurochemicals are the origin of the illness.
Quote:
You are getting your information about mental illness second-hand, through political activist leaders like Thomas Szasz and R.D. Laing. Unless your name is followed by an "M.D." or "Ph.D." you are not qualified to question the scientific establishment like Szasz and Laing do. No reputable physician or scientist will ever take you seriously without scientific or medical credentials; I can tell you this first-hand, having grown up in the scientific community and having refused to participate in upper-level science classes because I found them insulting. Thus no physician or scientist takes my ideas on science seriously now, nor will they ever.

I'm getting my information first-hand, from my own experiences and also from qualified medical researchers that happen to question the religion of biomedical psychiatry. And, as a survivor of psychiatric treatment, I am indeed qualified to question psychiatry.
Quote:
Let me put it to you this way, dear: my theory of mammalian evolution from dinosaurs is more likely to become widely accepted in the scientific and political circles that determine national policy than is the idea that major mental illness is better treated by counselling than medication.

I'm afraid you're right, due to psychiatry's insistence that the biochemical theory is the only plausible one. However, it's already been proven that mental illness is better treated without drugs, especially forced drugs.
Quote:
So really you are tilting at windmills, Francesca. Why are you doing this? I can tell you why. You had bad experiences with psychiatry and are now prosecuting an information vendetta, which is really a failed endeavor from the start, as you should have gleaned from the whole IMO experiment.

No, I am part of a worldwide struggle to bring human rights to psychiatry and I believe we're going to win that battle.
Quote:
Get back to me when you start stockpiling weapons or making credible threats. That's a language I speak fluently.

My lawsuit is a credible threat against the psychiatric establishment.
Quote:
No, it's all a terminology issue. You don't like the idea that a person who is hallucinating voices or slitting their wrists has an "illness." You prefer "emotional crisis."

I think you misunderstand. Whether it's called an illness or a crisis, it's still very serious. You appear to be enraged that I don't call it an illness. That is a terminology issue and not a very important one. Illnesses arise from diseased tissue. That's not the case with mental "illnesses."
Quote:
But why should a person in such a desparate situation that they cannot make rational choices for themselves be forceably held or medicated until their condition stabilizes? Your fringe movement will answer with cries of "Unethical, immoral, illegal." What are ethics, morals, laws, compared to the machinery of a nation-state? Nations are born by force, and they die by force. The whole North American/European hegemony is currently dying by force from within, and I welcome it. The strong, who know how to operate the system, will survive. The weak (i.e. whiny protesters, political activists, fringe elements) will fall. And remember: the established order is united by privilege, while all the fringe groups like, for instance, antipsychiatry, Scientology, and psychoanalysis, just in the area of mental health, are disunited and at odds with each other.

I'm finding you a little incoherent here. Once treatment becomes forced, then it's no longer treatment but rather punishment.
Quote:
In the Bible maybe David kills Goliath with a stone and a slingshot, but in the real world Goliath looks for the guy holding the slingshot and tears him a new asshole.

As far as I can tell, the whole antipsychiatry movement is an outgrowth of 1960's counterculture, when the American left was blowing its mind on pot and acid and convincing itself it was also ending the Vietnam War and creating peace on Earth, while the Viet Cong went about their violent business and ejected the American presence from the southern half of their country, thus ending the Vietnam war. Just because you like to pretend psychiatrists are intimidated by you, or that you are ending psychiatry, doesn't mean that you are doing so. And this time I don't see any Viet Cong that's going to end by force the thing you hate. You'll have to do it yourself, and I guarantee you the Canadian government has just as many protocols for dealing with insurgents as the US government does.

Again, I find your words a trifle unintelligible.
Quote:
Francesca Allan:
And, Holy, I wouldn't be caught dead cavorting with a bunch of scientologists and/or movie stars

That's good because they don't want to hang out with you either. Officers are never supposed to fraternize with the enlisted soldiers under their command. That military metaphor brings up an interesting point: if you armed a bunch of mentally ill people (including psychopaths, they're mentally ill too) and put them on an island with a bunch of armed antipsychiatry activists, who do you think would win? The bloodthirsty rapists and serial killers, along with some normal mentally ill people, or the kind of people who organize protest marches and their tweedy academic gurus? White laugh
And don't call me Holy. Holy got taken out by some bad shit. Now you're talking to MindSlave.

Here too.


posted by Francesca Allan
  

Francesca Allan is a Legal Fetishist



Francesca Allan:
My lawsuit is a credible threat against the psychiatric establishment.

Oh what a surprise. Just in my own experience of your tactics, you have altered an NPOV site to indicate that a researcher with whom you disagree should be prosecuted for hate crimes, threatened me with criminal prosecution when I insulted you, and now you reveal that you are engaged in a lawsuit against some psychiatric entity whom you believe has wronged you.

Does anyone else see a pattern here? Something about what happens when fringe radicals try to hijack the legal system to serve their own ends? Silly and stupid, that's how I feel


[CLICK HERE TO VIEW THIS PICTURE]


posted by MindSlave
  

Re: Francesca Allan is a Legal Fetishist



MindSlave:
Francesca Allan:
My lawsuit is a credible threat against the psychiatric establishment.

Oh what a surprise. Just in my own experience of your tactics, you have altered an NPOV site to indicate that a researcher with whom you disagree should be prosecuted for hate crimes, threatened me with criminal prosecution when I insulted you, and now you reveal that you are engaged in a lawsuit against some psychiatric entity whom you believe has wronged you.

Does anyone else see a pattern here? Something about what happens when fringe radicals try to hijack the legal system to serve their own ends? Silly and stupid, that's how I feel

Re wikipedia, E. Fuller Torrey is a liar and a blight upon the mentally ill. The fact that I disagree with him is beside the point. And as for your "criminal prosecution," I assume you are referring to the fact that I was going to report you to your ISP. That would be completely understandable given that you were libelling me at the time. I don't merely "believe" that I was wronged by psychiatry. I can prove that they committed medical malpractice and violated the Mental Health Act and the Human Rights Code and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Tell me, Holy, don't you have something better to do with your time? I am neither "fringe" nor a "radical." I simply support human rights in psychiatry. Why that enrages you is beyond me.


posted by Francesca Allan
  



E. Fuller Torrey spent decades working with seriously mentally ill people in hospitals. He uses thousands of peer reviewed scientific studies to support his statements. He points out thousands of documented every day tragedies that "forced" treatment could have prevented.
Thomas Szasz has never treated people with schizophrenia, bipolar, or serious psychotic disorders. He sites no peer reviewed evidence for his pseudoscientific philosophies. He has not changed his opinion in over 40 years; despite the vast amount of scientific evidence that has contradicted his statements in the 1960's.

The reason the scientific community regards anti-psychiatry as mere quackery. Psychiatry uses evidence and statistical analysis and submits them for peer-review in credible journals. This is how we rational people tell the difference between good and bad science. When anti-psychiatrists make dubious claims and do not undergo this formality, there really is no reason to take anything they say seriously.


posted by Agnostic89
  





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