»Martyrs = Criminals? Good that they are suppressed by pagans«

stinkz:

You mean the laws founded on very Christian ideas, many of which deal with freedom OF religion? Oh yah, those.

Yes those. I don't care on what they are FOUNDED. Whether Christian or Indian.

And, in fact they are founded on ROMAN laws. And in case you don't know: Romans were the guys who killed a lot of jews, including Jesus.

stinkz:

I love how you always want to tell Christians what they would do. I would love for you to tell this to Corrie Ten Boom and others, who risked there lives under the Nazi regime, doing what they knew, as Christians, was right.

As if everyone who protested and dared his life under Nazis was a Christian. Protesting and daring one's life is NOT typically Christian.

It is HUMAN, or, if you wish, religious. But not Christian. Slaughtering others is typically Christian though. And typically Jewish. And typically Islamic.

posted by knn

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in-my-opinion.org -> Religion and Mysteries, from worship to werewolves -> Religious & Philosophical Topics -> Martyrs = Criminals? Good that they are suppressed by pagans

Nazi and Chistianity

knn:

stinkz:

:I love how you always want to tell Christians what they would do. I would love for you to tell this to Corrie Ten Boom and others, who risked there lives under the Nazi regime, doing what they knew, as Christians, was right.

As if everyone who protested and dared his life under Nazis was a Christian. Protesting and daring one's life is NOT typically Christian.

It is HUMAN, or, if you wish, religious.

Yup, another point I wanted to comment upon but forgot.
Nazi have very little to do with this topic, btw.
The people who worked against them risking their lives did whatever they did NOT because they were Christian - Russians did the same and as you know they were as far from being Christian as possible.
Though it also was not religious. I think protesting against something like the Nazi regime is in the human nature.

I might be mistaken, but I think Nazi at that time were Christian more or less. So basically Christian nation did something others had to fight against.

nobeliefs.com…

I understand that is not the source you will respect, and that this friendship might have been for political reasons, but nevertheless. The totalitarian USSR would have never thought of having their leader greet a bishop.
What Nazis did was very unchristain in nature, and never in the Bible you would find an inspiration for that, but the point is that they claimed to be Christian and did such things, whereas the Russians, as atheistic as possible, fought against them.
So knn's point makes a lot of sense, that slaughtering for religious reasons is very Christain. Even Nazis, if you think, had the aim of purifying the nation which you can call religious.

posted by mymla

mymla:

Even Nazis, if you think, had the aim of purifying the nation which you can call religious.

Actually, what the Nazis did was influenced by social Darwinism, which is in line with an atheistic/"scientific" perspective. This perspective lacks the religious regard for human life.

posted by stinkz

Christianity is sweetness and light - in your dreams

stinkz:

Actually, what the Nazis did was influenced by social Darwinism, which is in line with an atheistic/"scientific" perspective. This perspective lacks the religious regard for human life.

Uff. Just take a look at Christian history, and you will see how much "regard for life" they have shown.

What a nonsense.

All your posts are about "an ideal state of Christianity" that doesn't exists and never will. Unless Jesus comes back on his white horse.

posted by knn

still Christian

stinkz:

Actually, what the Nazis did was influenced by social Darwinism, which is in line with an atheistic/"scientific" perspective. This perspective lacks the religious regard for human life.

My point was not about that Chistianity influenced them in any way, but that they, doing all those terrible things, still considered themselves Christian.
If you say that all the horrors happened because they were influenced by Darwinism, as if they became corrupted in their true Christian beliefs, so much the worse - if a single very new theory could have changed thousands of years of Chritianity, what does it tell you about Christianity?

posted by mymla

Killing jews is very Christian

stinkz:

I beg to differ. Martyrdom is a very Christian idea.

Before you start to praise martyrdom: Every Muslim suicide bomber is a martyr.

What is a martyr for one is a criminal for another.

stinkz:

Wrong again. Christianity is based on many many fulfilled prophesies, and a few which have yet to be fulfilled.

And I am sure you really liked that children's book that described all the fulfilled prophecies.
See also IMO → Have any of the prophecies of the bible been fulfilled?

mymla:

I might be mistaken, but I think Nazi at that time were Christian more or less. So basically Christian nation did something others had to fight against.

Yup, Hitler was a Christian (and a vegetarian by the way). Hitler was not excommunicated until today.

Killing jews was actually very Christian. Christians killed jews for some time. After all jews were the ones who made Jesus getting nailed.

posted by knn

knn:

All your posts are about "an ideal state of Christianity"

My last post wasn't even about Christianity.

knn:

Before you start to praise martyrdom: Every Muslim suicide bomber is a martyr.

Once again, you've blindly said "Islam" and "Christianity" in the same sentence, and think you've proven a point.

I have not "praised" martyrdom. Previously, you stated that daring one's own life was not a Christian idea. I showed you that it was. Changing your mind by stating that this is "bad," only contradicts what you were saying before.

knn:

And I am sure you really liked that children's book that described all the fulfilled prophecies.

Yah, Isaiah.

knn:

Yup, Hitler was a Christian (and a vegetarian by the way).

Hitler promoted animal rights, which directly opposes the value Christianity places on human life. Just saying "yup, he was" doesn't make it so.

knn:

Killing jews was actually very Christian. Christians killed jews for some time. After all jews were the ones who made Jesus getting nailed.

What you have just said is as ridiculous as the claim that the movie "The Passion" was anti-semetic.

Hitler's reasons for killing Jews had nothing to do with Christ, and everything to do with Darwinism.

posted by stinkz

If popular thought feels 'science' to be different from all other kinds of knowledge because science is experimentally verifiable, it is mistaken.

Read my posts before replying please

stinkz:

knn:

Before you start to praise martyrdom: Every Muslim suicide bomber is a martyr.

You see how it works with you stinkz:

READ WHAT IS WRITTEN!

I wrote: "BEFORE you start to praise"
You reply: "I have not praised"

I wrote: "Protesting and daring one's life is not TYPICALLY Christian."
You reply: "Previously, you stated that daring one's own life was not a Christian idea."

Read the posts, stinkz.

posted by knn

Side-stepping...

Knn... please reply to the POINT.

Daring one's own life is a part of martyrdom, and martyrdom is very Christian.

This point, as well as all others in my previous point, still stand.

posted by stinkz

Yes, being a martyr is very Christian

stinkz:

Daring one's own life is a part of martyrdom, and martyrdom is very Christian.

No, martyrdom is very Muslim. The pagans call the martyrs "suicide bombers" and "criminals" and "psychotics".

That applies nearly to all martyrs. Christian, Jewish or Muslim.

If you insist that being "a criminal" and a "psychotic" is very Christian then who am I to disagree?

posted by knn

wheres your position, or do you avoid having one?

Knn... you are still doing the very same illogical thing that I said before...

stinkz:

Changing your mind by stating that this is "bad," only contradicts what you were saying before.

Now, lets look at your previous posts.

knn:

As if everyone who protested and dared his life under Nazis was a Christian. Protesting and daring one's life is NOT typically Christian.

knn:

Every Muslim suicide bomber is a martyr.

knn:

The pagans call the martyrs "suicide bombers" and "criminals" and "psychotics".

That applies nearly to all martyrs.

First, daring one's own life and protesting is a GOOD thing, that Christians don't do. Then, I disprove you, and show you that daring one's life is very Christian. Then, you suddenly change your mind, and darings one's own life becomes a bad thing, because it is Christian.

Please, make up your mind.

posted by stinkz

Terrorism is very Christian

stinkz:

How can you read that into my statements?

OK, let's see one by one:

stinkz:

First, daring one's own life and protesting is a GOOD thing, that Christians don't do

Huh? I never said that daring one's own life is a good thing
And I never said that Christians refused to dare their lives.
Many dared their lives for many things. Thus daring one's life is not typically Christian.

stinkz:

Then, I disprove you, and show you that daring one's life is very Christian.

It is very Christian, and very Muslim. It is very HUMAN. It is not TYPICALLY Christian. In fact, considering the amount of Christians, there are only a few real Christian martyrs. So I would even say, that daring one's life is untypically Christian. Being gay is typically Catholic priest.

stinkz:

Then, you suddenly change your mind, and darings one's own life becomes a bad thing, because it is Christian.

What? I never said that. What I said is that "martyr" for one guy, is a terrorist for another.

It's a mystery for me how you read stuff into someone's words.

It's a mystery for me how you think I changed my mind.

And it's a bigger mystery that you think you have disproven me.

But whatever: If "martyr" = "terrorist" (did you know that suicide is forbidden in Islam, thus all suicide bombers are PER DEFINITION martyrs) then of course you are free to spread your statement: "Terrorism is very Christian".

posted by knn

english much?

knn:

Thus daring one's life is not typically Christian.

Oh, you mean "exclusively" not "typically."

knn:

But whatever: If "martyr" = "terrorist"

Which it clearly doesn't.

posted by stinkz

For Christians Christian terrorists are not tertorists

stinkz:

Which it clearly doesn't.

Yeah, "Christian terrorist <> Terorrist, for Christians". Of course, you as a Christian are not willing to accept that Jesus was a criminal getting the death penalty. For you he is "something special".

posted by knn

Typically

stinkz:

Oh, you mean "exclusively" not "typically."

No, I mean typically. It's not typical for a Christian to be a martyr. And it's not typical for a martyr to be a Christian.

Usually very seldomly Christians are martyrs and martyrs seldomly are Christian.

posted by knn

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