»The Sigmund Freud thread«

i like freud...from what ive learned about him he made great contributions to psychology -- regardless of them being good or bad, and his theories are really interesting i think...but maybe i don't know AS much as i should about him to judge...but i like his stuff

posted by gkiss

in-my-opinion.org -> Politics -> Psychiatry and Anti-Psychiatry -> The Sigmund Freud thread

I like him too, most men don't like him b/c they can't handle the horrible psychological truth about themselves White laugh

posted by a

New Thread Please

knn, would you make a new thread out of this? Maybe starting with allone's post about Freud?

gkiss:

That's okay; I liked him too until I started reading his actual work recently. Actually what led me to it is a post knn made where he said Freud didn't know anything. Usually when I see knn trash a scientist, I start looking for data. In this case I didn't know much, so I read about him on lots of sites online and read some of his actual work that I had on my shelf but never looked at.

To make a long story short, it's totally unsupported. There's no data to show that psychoanalysis has ever worked, ever. A lot of psychiatrists (who are MD's, not just Ph.D's, thus have more training with patients and know a lot about clinical reality) say that psychoanalysis just doesn't do any good. I also sort of think that the only good psychoanalysis can do is for (1) psychoanalysts who want to make money off people; (2) people who aren't really sick. Like for instance, when I go see my psychiatrist, it's about twenty minutes of light conversation for him to see how I'm holding up. We don't talk for an hour or more about how I feel about my mother or father, which is what psychoanalysis is. And the real danger of it, of course, is that people who have serious illnesses like, well, schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, will think they can just "talk it out." And on the opposite end you have people like the director Woody Allen, who has been in therapy nonstop for thirty years. Not again

That's ridiculous. No one needs that much therapy; especially not a person who lives a relatively normal, functional life or even functions on a high level like Allen does.

Some therapy is good for people who have undergone trauma; after they first hospitalized me I was so demoralized about my condition that they recommended I see a local therapist. And it was really basic stuff like relaxation techniques. If I brought up specific things in the past, the guy would basically tell me to get over it, everyone's got problems, pal ! I loved it; it was like talking to my Dad, who generally behaves like he's my commanding officer! White laugh

That makes it easy to get help, when you don't have some creepy Freudian dude feeling around in your head for weird memories and tendencies.

And finally there are Freud's eccentricities. Here's just two. He was a cocaine addict who wrote papers about the wonderful therapeutic applications of the drug, after experimenting on himself with it. Untold numbers of people got hooked on cocaine by their doctors for anything from headaches to depression. And Freud got involved with a guy named Fleiss (a coke-snorting buddy BTW) who believed that the nose was the answer to all unknown questions about the body and mind, and that mental and physical illness could be caused by imperfections on the inside of the nose. Together, high on cocaine, they concocted and published fantastic explanations about how this worked. Freud sent a patient he had been analyzing to Fleiss. Fleiss excised the patient's turbinate bone , a bone in the nose, then left a roll of gauze inside her nose accidentally, causing a massive infection and disfigurement.

Those are just a couple of examples of what Torrey calls Freudian fraud. Basically, I concluded that psychoanalytic theories are at best useless and at worst dangerous.

posted by holy_of_holies

I like him too, most men don't like him b/c they can't handle the horrible psychological truth about themselves White laugh

a can I ask you something? Do you know anything about anything, or do you just come around here to make sexist statements like that?

posted by holy_of_holies

holy_of_holies:

I like him too, most men don't like him b/c they can't handle the horrible psychological truth about themselves White laugh

a can I ask you something? Do you know anything about anything, or do you just come around here to make sexist statements like that?

I'm a little scared to answer this b/c you'd think i'm flaming you or knn would say it's offtopic.
Though if you don't know the fact most men disagree with Freud's theories about male sexual psychology, you're the one here who doesn't know much.

posted by a

"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger" Friedrich Nietzsche

Tiefling'ed Again!

holy_of_holies:

I like him too, most men don't like him b/c they can't handle the horrible psychological truth about themselves White laugh

a can I ask you something? Do you know anything about anything, or do you just come around here to make sexist statements like that?

Now you're misrepresenting what I say by misrepresenting your comment that I responded to! You said: " most men don't like [Freud] b/c they can't handle the horrible psychological truth about themselves ". Then you represented your statement as: " most men disagree with Freud's theories about male sexual psychology ". Those two statements are not the same. Your first statement explains why you think most men don't like Freud, but your second just says that most men disagree with him! What was sexist in your statement, and what I think is ignorant, is this: " they can't handle the horrible psychological truth about themselves ". This implies two things: (1) Freud's ideas are the "truth," which is not the case at all since they are still totally unproven, and (2) this Freudian "truth" somehow applies only to male psychology, which doesn't make sense because it takes a man and a woman , a mother and son, to make an "Oedipus Complex." White laugh

I'm not flaming you, I'm just pointing out that for someone who calls herself emancipated, your ideas about men are in the stone age.

posted by holy_of_holies

You're right, i'm wrong & i live in the stone age, fabulous White laugh

Now let's stop fighting, shall we?

posted by a

h_o_h:

a can I ask you something? Do you know anything about anything, or do you just come around here to make sexist statements like that?

That's not called for at all... Your cat peed on my carpet

posted by Tiefling

holy_of_holies:

Now you're misrepresenting what I say by misrepresenting your comment that I responded to! You said:

Sarcasm, pal!

posted by sangu

Genetics vs. Fraud (whoops I mean Freud)

In my other long post against Freud, I didn't even get into Freud's theories of child psychology, just psychoanalysis. The child psychology theories, were, I think almost as bad as the clinical psychoanalysis was.

During Freud's time, a lot of people like the psychiatrist Emil Kraepelin ♣, who worked with the severely mentally ill in asylums, were already starting to argue that mental illness has a genetic basis, due to the fact that it seemed to run in families. These psychiatrists and neurologists vigorously opposed Freud's central theory of development, which was that mental illness is rooted in subconscious memories of childhood sexual feelings or trauma. Forget about the fact that he tried to treat people just by talking; the Freudian view of development alone was extremely destructive. The views of people like Kraepelin, which were less glamorous and intriguing to the public than Freud's imaginings, found little popularity, especially in America, largely due to their displacement by psychoanalysis. Of course, if mental illness does have a genetic basis - as there is now plenty of evidence to suggest - then it seems probable that just talking to a mentally ill person alone will not "cure" it. In fact, since genes are in every cell of the body, mental illness seems incurable, but treatable. Genes are chemicals that produce other chemicals to build organs like the brain, and if there is something wrong in the genes, they will continue to do the wrong thing until death occurs. Just talking will not "cure" anything. And in fact, the only things that were found to help at all were things like psychotherapy (very different from psychoanalysis), medication and behavior modification.

And now in the scientific community, Freud is almost completely discredited, and is only given credit for popularizing his idea of the subconscious (in my opinion, even this is too much credit, since there's no evidence the subconscious exists. But that is just me. Very Happy

)

posted by holy_of_holies

sangu:

Sarcasm, pal!

It wasn't

posted by Kupov

I like him too, most men don't like him b/c they can't handle the horrible psychological truth about themselves

A, you are in your phallic phase and simply suffer from penisneid (penis jealousy)

posted by knn

holy_of_holies:

There's no data to show that psychoanalysis has ever worked, ever

That's not true. Woody Allen is one of the most "psychoanalyst" people. And after 30 or so year of analysis he married his daughter White laugh

posted by knn

holy_of_holies:

And finally there are Freud's eccentricities. Here's just two. He was a cocaine addict who wrote papers about the wonderful therapeutic applications of the drug, after experimenting on himself with it. Untold numbers of people got hooked on cocaine by their doctors for anything from headaches to depression.

It looks bad, but at that time cocaine was a legal drug being sold in pharmacies for exactly those reasons. Thus I cannot really condemn him for that.

posted by knn

ebooks-download.com

holy_of_holies:

Those are just a couple of examples of what Torrey calls Freudian fraud. Basically, I concluded that psychoanalytic theories are at best useless and at worst dangerous.

I read some of Freud's hogwash. IT'S UNBELIEVABLE that it's not considered a religion Not again

One of the theories is of course that every daughter wants to murder her mother because her father makes her horny and the mother is in the way. This applies also to boys and fathers.

Another theory is that dreams have a meaning that needs to be analyzed (how pathetic can you get?)

Another theory is that mental problem stem from sexuality (girl sees mom's vagina and goes crazy).

These are not side theories. These are the BASIC theories (doctrines rather) that underlie every session of psychoanalysis. These are the core principles.

posted by knn

Goto page
1, 2 Next

The time now is 6 October 2008, 18:09
php B.B.